Sorry, I missed this one during lunch. Yeah, I just got home.
"because they go cien por ciento carbon" H.W.
"Cien Por Ciento" translates to 100%
Wrong!!!!
Welcome to the Skim Online Message Boards.
Sorry, I missed this one during lunch. Yeah, I just got home.
"because they go cien por ciento carbon" H.W.
"Cien Por Ciento" translates to 100%
Wrong!!!!
woops i meant epoxyOriginally Posted by MaloSkimmer
vitamin water.
los angeles.
I was under the impression, though i very well may be wrong, that ALL exiles use 100% epoxy construction, whereas competing companies at the time of "birth" of exile were not consistantly using epoxy at all.
vitamin water.
los angeles.
i purchased an e-glass exile two years ago that has a polyester resin gloss and hotcoat. i am guessing that the reason for that has something to do with ease of production because polyester resin is easier to rub out and sand than epoxy. in my opinion, polyester resin does just fine for e-glass and s-glass laminates as long as the lap in the rails is good and strong. i would only go with epoxy for carbon laminates. i know one thing is for sure though...i will NEVER pay upwards of 350 bucks for a skimboard again, that is just ridiculous, i dont care what materials are used.
why would epoxy be any better with carbon than with the other materials?
and I need peluso to tell me if i'm right or not that all exiles have epoxy in them.
vitamin water.
los angeles.
epoxy wets out better than polyester does. it is a lot easier to laminate a fabric that is more difficult to drape and sufficiently wet out (i.e. carbon) with epoxy. and im 100% sure that the hotcoat and gloss on my exile is polyester.
all exiles are laminated 100% with epoxy. If you opt for a gloss coat we use polyester because there is no epoxy alternative that we have tried (and we have tried many) that works (i.e. doesnt add a half pound to the weight of the board). if you get textured its all epoxy.....
and loves to skim, epoxy is a better adhesive period. Eglass Sglass Carbon, its still a better adhesive. Since the job of the resin is to bind things together, epoxy is best. The fact that cabron isnt even compatable with polyesters makes it even that much more true in the case of carbon...
ok honest mistake, I'm wasn't tring to beat you down
an e-glass or s-glass board lammed with epoxy would be best but not for upwards of 350 dollars. i understand that there is markup done by the manufacturers and the retailers but damn. i dont even pay that much for my custom surfboards which are much more labor oriented. i do have to admit though...the board builders are damn good businessmen.
No, you are a bad businessman if you don't think that the costs and markup add up to that. You seem like a smart guy, so why dont you sit down and really do the math instead of running your mouth about how its a ripoff. If you want me to explain it to you in pm I will. Best I can tell most companies charge around $350 for their high end eglass boards regardless of whether or not its epoxy.
Best I can tell, no skimboard manufacturer is geting rich and most are struggling just to survive.
If you want your board to last you should def go epoxy and carbon. My first board was a Vic Ultra and after a year the tail & nose were worn down almost to the foam I had to regloss them so it didn't happen, the rails weren't even sharp anymore and the resin seemed to be more brittle. If I hit a rock I would get a crack or ding. Ive had my Exile carbon for about half a hear now and it is not showing much signs of wear even tho Ive skimmed about once a week since I got it. The tail doesn't show much wear which suprises me because if it were polyester I would expect it to be showing a lot of carbon by now. You can see carbon through the nose but that is because when I bought it I could already see it a little bit but thats normal and Im always sticking the nose in the sand which is making it wear faster. The rails are almost as sharp as when I bought it too. So I would say at least get epoxy and if you have extra money get carbon too.
Last edited by WOODOO; 06-06-2006 at 12:45 PM.
"How could hip hop be dead if Wu-Tang is forever?" -RZA
How did you come to the name Woodoo?
I know Woodoo as a South American skateboard company. Kinda interesting it showed up here on skimonline.
i think its his real name.
ye its my real name but ive heard of those skateboards b4
"How could hip hop be dead if Wu-Tang is forever?" -RZA
mhm
vitamin water.
los angeles.
yes
i run with the amish mafia, think twice before you speak
atg
aaron, i understand that there is a certain amount of markup involved in every hard goods retail business. i am just curious to know what kind of labor charges are involved in skimboard production (per step), as i am sure that the materials costs are a fair amount cheaper, assuming glass is bought by the roll and resin by the drum etc... i also understand that nobody is getting rich off of building skimboards and i wouldnt expect them too because of the small grass roots type of community skimboarding has. also, i know that airbrushing is a pretty lucrative art form especially when on cars, surfboards, skimboards, and other hard goods, but from what i have seen, the "art" on some of the boards i see being sold for 30+ dollars looks like it could be printed on rice paper laminates. if the art is printed on lams, is the cost mostly offsetting the cost of the original labor put in by the designer? i am just looking for answers as to how these costs are added up. you can explain it to me in pm if you feel it would be more appropriate.
Art is a good example to work with in public... the wholesale art surcharge on Exiles is something like 17 bucks. On average it takes about an hour to do the art, more or less. Thats 10 bucks. Plus the cost of materials, a few bucks... this implies that we make about 4 bucks off of our 13 dollar investment, yielding something like 30% ROI before overhead, assuming nothing goes wrong, which it often does.
So out of that $30 the consumer pays, I make $4.00, which promptly gets put in pool towards the 150 thousand dollars or so of "fixed" expenses I have every year (rent, marketing, insurance, utilities etc).
So if all we sold was "art surchages" we would have to spend $487,500 on labor and materials in order to make the $150,000 that would cover our fixed expenses for the year. Not including sales and administration expenses as well as some others....
We dont sell "art surcharges" as if its a big part of our business (definitely more hassle then its worth financially). But the skimboard manufacturing numbers follow the same principles, except our margins are lower on those.
Does my position make a little more sense now?
it does, thank you. would it be easier though to print the stock art onto rice paper laminates and simply lam them in or is the cost of the screenprinting more than the cost of an airbrush? also, what are the labor costs associated with laminating, hotcoating, sanding, glossing, polishing etc... or is that confidential information? i understand if you cannot tell me. another thing, do any board companies offer clear boards with no pigment or art on them or is that not available because of trade secret-type stuff.
lts, you said you don't even pay 350 for your custom surfboards. You can't use that as a comparison since you work(ed?) at HIC and obviously get a discount. 99% of people have to pay more than 350 for a custom surfboard. And from what I've seen, the construction in a skimboard is much better than on a surfboard. It has to withstand a shitload more pounding and scraping on sand.
The foam in skimboards is way better. I guess you could argue because of Vbagging methods of the lam work on skimboards makes construction better, but I don't think surfboards are made poorly as far as the work goes.
If skimboarding offered Pro riders 30,000 for 1st. place in major contest you might see core made out of H-45 and wraped in 100% carbon. Designed to only with stand the single contest.
Then again I'm not sure if the performance values would be any better than the strong boards we have now, but then again companies could market extremly expensive throw away boards, tell people that they are better, people would buy them and then come on this site and tell the world how much better they are.
That is my plan any way. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Last edited by MaloSkimmer; 06-07-2006 at 03:20 PM.
first the implementation of rice paper art isnt compatible with our construction process as is. second its expensive, probably almost as much and third you would then have to inventory your art, which is even harder to do from a cash flow perspective.
i cant tell you exactly how much it costs in labor to do the things tou asked about but its easy for you to estimate. take the time it takes you to make a board, multiply that by about 1.4 because other people dont work as fast as you and you werent completely honest with your time assessment, then multiply those hours by the hourly wage rate which is probably around 10 bucks an hour after taxes, if your lucky.
there are multiple reasons why companies dont offer clear boards. I dont really want to get into it.
my daughter and dog teamed up to unroll and destroy my entire roll of rice paper, which was small and cost 17 bucks. That shit is not cheap.
yeah, I meant the printing is 'expensive', not the paper
still though, I was surprised that tiny roll cost so much.
oh, rice paper is relatively inexpensive if you get it from the right source. Art stores and such mark it up a lot.
i was under the impression that most surfboard and skimboard manufacturers employ "piece-workers" to shape, lam, hotcoat, etc..... i could see how an hourly wage would jack the price up dramatically though if the workers arent honest.
yeah, i do get a discount but its not much of a discount, the way i get boards so cheap is because of the relationships i have built up with the shapers and laborers. the construction of a skimboard may be better durability wise because of the materials used and a more up to date laminating technique. in my opinion a lot more work and craftsmanship goes into a surfboard though, especially if the blank is completely hand shaped, and even more-so if there are elaborate concaves, channels, wings, etc... through working at the HIC factory i have had the opportunity to be able to learn the whole production process in detail and have developed a very trained eye to look at minor defects and such with. from what i have seen, the quality, with the exception of the lam because of different techniques (apples and oranges comparison), of skimboards has been more times than not, less than acceptable in standards set for surfboard craftsmanship. so construction wise, skimboards are definitely stronger but in the case of overall quality and appearance of finished product, surfboards are better.
Not quality, maybe appearance, but they use higher quality (more expensive) materials require the same amount of labor if not more and retail for less than surfboards.
I think most of my guys are honest, and I am frankly pretty happy with their output these days, knowing how long it takes to make a board first hand.
Just cause you get HIC boards for wholesale or better doesnt mean everyone else does. And your perception of how much these things should cost is skewed because of it.
I have a vic foamie..
Not sure what the top is made up of, but i can see the little stringies on it.
The paint job is wearing off, after about a year of mild usage. The blue paint is turning greenish, probably the layer underneath.
Whatever that material is, i hate it.
My teacher uses epoxy, and it looks like a great material
sounds liek your board is de laminating
How long does it take your guys to make a board if you don't mind me asking? I've just always been curious as to how many you guys can get done in a day.
"How could hip hop be dead if Wu-Tang is forever?" -RZA
I cant tell you how many boards we make a day, but it takes about a week to make a board.
Wow thats longer than I expected but Im sure there are reasons for it
"How could hip hop be dead if Wu-Tang is forever?" -RZA
cure cycles and a little inefficiency/problem padding
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