Car Speaker help, please

**Fuji** · 07-23-2012, 05:15 PM

So I just bought two pairs of these:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o01_s00_i00

and installed them into my car, myself. Everything went pretty smoothly, the only real difficulty was getting the door panel off.

Put everything in, and the front two speakers just sound off, they clearly sound not as clear as the back speakers. I double checked the polarity of the wires in the front, even reversed them to see if that was the problem (it wasn't, they sounded worse)

Here's just some odd occurrences that happened, let me know if this could possibly mess things up:

- front stock speakers were 5.25 in, and the new 5.25's didn't fit perfectly, the frame was a little smaller. I had to install them at an angle with only 2 screws.
- back stock speakers were 4.75 in (weird fracking size), new 5.25's fit perfectly with all 4 screws.
- cut and spliced all wire connections myself, front was done same as the back.
- Stereo is a new Pioneer radio, no amp (sound guy didn't think i really needed one)

tldr: back speakers sound better than front speakers, but were installed the same, dafuq?

**murphylee** · 07-23-2012, 06:51 PM

Installed the same, except you said in the beginning the front components did not fit. So, problem number one.

Next, what kind of car is this? Or is it a truck? Panels act like an enclosure and the resonance in them can be totally different. For example, my sedan front components sit in a door of course, so they are small and shallow. Little air moves around in there and only mids/highs come through them. Low frequencies sound like sh!t. On the other hand, my rear speakers sit in the rear deck which acts as a baffle style enclosure. Resonance in that rear deck is great because of the air it can move in the trunk and the solid rear glass deflecting the sound. Even if my front components were removed, it would still sound fine. I would lose some clarity of course, but because of that rear deck and the way they are mounted, the loss is very little. Not to mention, most front components are mounted in the worse place possible...the godd*mn floor practically. So much sounds quality is lost sitting in such an awkward random spot and they sit inside flimsy metal/plastic usually.

The same idea works similar with people who have subwoofers in hatchbacks and is the reason why they sound so much louder while the exact same setup sounds completely different in another car without the slanted hatch. Someone in a hatch or wagon can be loud as sh!t with just one little 10-12" sub if setup properly.

Hope this helps a little. But, if you want to get technical with it, then I would suggest a real audiophile forum. Also, it looks like those speakers are rated at 35wrms and most decks put out 18-25wrms x 4. So, you could step it up with a small component amplifier to take the load off the head unit and increase the power to get a little louder.

**BART** · 07-23-2012, 07:04 PM

I don't know anything about car speakers but I do know distortion in speakers is often a problem of not enough power from the amplifier (or lack of one altogether). Do they sound ok at very low volume?

**ZapBulletRider** · 07-23-2012, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by BART

I don't know anything about car speakers but I do know distortion in speakers is often a problem of not enough power from the amplifier (or lack of one altogether). Do they sound ok at very low volume?

**Fuji** · 07-23-2012, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by murphylee

Installed the same, except you said in the beginning the front components did not fit. So, problem number one.

Next, what kind of car is this? Or is it a truck? Panels act like an enclosure and the resonance in them can be totally different. For example, my sedan front components sit in a door of course, so they are small and shallow. Little air moves around in there and only mids/highs come through them. Low frequencies sound like sh!t. On the other hand, my rear speakers sit in the rear deck which acts as a baffle style enclosure. Resonance in that rear deck is great because of the air it can move in the trunk and the solid rear glass deflecting the sound. Even if my front components were removed, it would still sound fine. I would lose some clarity of course, but because of that rear deck and the way they are mounted, the loss is very little. Not to mention, most front components are mounted in the worse place possible...the godd*mn floor practically. So much sounds quality is lost sitting in such an awkward random spot and they sit inside flimsy metal/plastic usually.

The same idea works similar with people who have subwoofers in hatchbacks and is the reason why they sound so much louder while the exact same setup sounds completely different in another car without the slanted hatch. Someone in a hatch or wagon can be loud as sh!t with just one little 10-12" sub if setup properly.

Hope this helps a little. But, if you want to get technical with it, then I would suggest a real audiophile forum. Also, it looks like those speakers are rated at 35wrms and most decks put out 18-25wrms x 4. So, you could step it up with a small component amplifier to take the load off the head unit and increase the power to get a little louder.

wow this helps a lot, thanks. Yea it seems like the front panel is not as open as the back doors are, the back is a complete circle with holes while the front is more of mostly-full moon. maybe its just the acoustics and not me. I have a hatchback by the way. I was just surprised by the amount of bass that the back produced compared to the front, so i guess you were right about the low frequencies.

See the weird thing about the speaker not fitting well is that the stock front speakers are the same size, just have a larger housing.

To answer Bart's question, see the back tends to do better at higher volumes, which is even weirder considering i replaced the backs with a larger speaker (i guess that wouldn't change the amps going back there but go figure)

I think in the future if I get a sub i would definitely invest in an amplifier, but for now it seems even these small speakers wouldn't have much of a difference with an amp...?

**ankskim** · 07-23-2012, 08:59 PM

definitely get an amp. i got my amp used from Crutchfield and it's pretty damn good. i have two 12's. sometimes i feel it's kinda overkill but it's still better than those Negroes with four 15's rattling in a shitty looking Dodge Magnum.

**ankskim** · 07-23-2012, 09:01 PM

which is kinda hypocritical because i do have a very nigger looking car. but whatevs.

**GnipGnop** · 07-23-2012, 09:32 PM

Instead of fracking around with an amp, buy a deck with a built in low pass filter so you can cut the bass frequencies being sent to the front speakers. That way, you're only powering them to produce mids and highs, and saving the lows for your sub. It will also help give them a longer life since they aren't trying to play frequencies they can't really reproduce. You can get decks with low pass filters starting at $200 ish. I got mine on sale for $150. It's the one thing I look for when buying a deck..

2 shiny canadian cents.

And yes, 2 twelves is overkill. Unless you're trying just for noise. For quality, in general, it's overkill.

**murphylee** · 07-23-2012, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Fuji

I think in the future if I get a sub i would definitely invest in an amplifier, but for now it seems even these small speakers wouldn't have much of a difference with an amp...?

Actually, it should, given you pick up a quality amplifier. There is so much trash Chinese bullsh!t equipment being trafficked and misrepresented in the car audio industry that even something so simple can be frustrating to find. Your head unit not only will have much more distortion coming from the crappy little amplifier inside of it, but very little power as well. Those speakers are rated at 35wrms and I'd say that's a safe realistic number from Pioneer. Unless you bought some ridiculously expensive aftermarket head unit, you are probably around 20wrms x 4 channels. Stock head units can be a lot worse than that unless you have a high end car. Most new cars now actually have their own 4+ channel amplifiers separated from the head unit to power the system. So, going from those numbers, you're technically looking at 50-60 percent of their potential power being used continuously. It certainly wouldn't hurt to start here.

Local stores usually sell complete crap, especially big box clowns like Best Buy. I recommend picking up something nice online or, since most car audio unfortunately has horrible resale value, you can usually find some tool with an amplifier he spent way too much money on desperate for cash on CraigsList and willing to work a deal. I see them quite often in my city. Stay around 35wrms per channel and don't get crazy. It's very easy to blow out components like these because unlike a bigass subwoofer, the cones don't move much and are easy to tear from overpowering.

GnipGnop made a good recommendation too. Choose whichever option fits your budget the best unless you have some extra cash and time to play around with different ideas.

**Fuji** · 07-24-2012, 10:41 AM

how much would I have to spend on an amp to realistically power these speakers to their potential? Be aware I do not have an subwoofer.

Also, where online would you suggest finding an amp? Also how much are we talking here money wise? crutchfield is quality, and user friendly but the cost shows.

**ankskim** · 07-24-2012, 10:50 AM

i got a used amp that was normally $250 for 100 bucks through Crutchfield. never over heated on me and gives a decent amount of rms. i forget what the number is exactly.

**ZapBulletRider** · 07-24-2012, 01:53 PM

I've tried adjusting the balance on my head unit but it still hangs to the left.

**T-REXX** · 07-24-2012, 02:32 PM

You either have a shitty connection somewhere or the head unit sucks. And to power those speakers, you may not want to get too powerful of an amp or else you'll blow those subs to kingdom come. A big amp is made to power subs, you have mids, you may just want to get a small amp from wal-mart...