Osama Bin Laden Dead 2001

[nukka-cp]

Fox news reports. Fox News 12/26/01

Another Report Dated 01/01/08

Shocker, how could he still be making all of those tapes?

[BART]

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.

Taliban leader makes a claim... sounds legit

[nukka-cp]

haha damnit BART let it eat, he had Marfan Syndrome

Marfan syndrome has a range of expressions, from mild to severe. The most serious complications are defects of the heart valves and aorta. It may also affect the lungs, eyes, the dural sac surrounding the spinal cord, skeleton and the hard palate.

I seriously doubt we just recently killed him and, ah hem, "dumped his body into the sea."

[BART]

Consider the source... that's all I'm saying.




If I were the most wanted man in the world, I'd have people say I was dead too.

[BART]

You can't play it both ways. Either you are a skeptical guy or you're not. You can't be super skeptical about government claims, then take a claim by a Taliban official at face value. I mean come on.

[heavyheavylowlow]

haha damnit BART let it eat, he had Marfan Syndrome



I seriously doubt we just recently killed him and, ah hem, "dumped his body into the sea."

you should try and see if the taliban will release his death certificate.

[nukka-cp]

Another article to ponder, Dr. Steve Piecznik

[nukka-cp]

You can't play it both ways. Either you are a skeptical guy or you're not. You can't be super skeptical about government claims, then take a claim by a Taliban official at face value. I mean come on.

So you really think they threw his body into the ocean? The most wanted man by America. I don't. We did fly his family out of the country just days after the attacks. Your link bart

[nukka-cp]

Consider the source... that's all I'm saying.




If I were the most wanted man in the world, I'd have people say I was dead too.

Well I checked the source of that picture (www.rawa.com)

First article I came across. "Let’s rise against the war crimes of US and its fundamentalist lackeys!"

On 5th May 2009, the US airstrikes targeted people’s homes, killing more than 150, mostly women and children. This is another war crime but Pentagon shamelessly includes Taliban as the perpetrators too and announces the civilian deaths being only 12!

Ministry of Propaganda has to keep those numbers low to keep MURICA's spirit high, and maybe the value of the dollar. It's sad how much fracked up shit happens because of MURICA!


Edit: This is what infuriates me, the fact that I tell people how fracked up our government is and they deny it and lash out at me (not you BART just people in general), I know below is not an exagerration because of research I've done myself for Global Gvt. classes. In fact, if you search CSPAN and type in "muhajadeen" into the search for the video archive you might find a video discussing how America is just funding a war from both sides, with supplies and money.

This administration is bombarding our country and tearing our women and children into pieces and from the other side, is lending a friendly hand towards the terrorist Gulbuddinis and Taliban -- the dirty, bloody enemies of our people-- and holding secret negotiations and talks with such brutal groups.

[BART]

I don't really care about what happened to the body. Seems to me making it disappear as quietly as possible is in the best strategic interest of the U.S.'s war agenda.

But who gives a shit. What difference does it make?

[nukka-cp]

The difference it makes is that it's just a popularity stunt or false sense of whatever. The whole point of these last 10 years has been bullshit.

[nukka-cp]

Did you read that Piecznik article though BART? Pretty interesting coming from a guy in his position I'd say.

[BART]

The difference it makes is that it's just a popularity stunt or false sense of whatever. The whole point of these last 10 years has been bullshit.

Does Obama get some political points? I guess. But I think a lot of people feel like it was a pretty empty, meaningless victory, myself included.

And why wouldn't Bush want that title? Bush struggled with clear war victories and public opinion turned on him, even in his own party. I mean to answer that you have to get into some very twisty conspiracy theories.

Alex Jones is awful btw. I do not understand why people are into that guy as some sort of information authority. The guy would not be out of place selling NFL rugs at a flea market. I wouldn't trust him to give me a good deal either.

[nukka-cp]

Does Obama get some political points? I guess. But I think a lot of people feel like it was a pretty empty, meaningless victory, myself included.

And why wouldn't Bush want that title? Bush struggled with clear war victories and public opinion turned on him, even in his own party. I mean to answer that you have to get into some very twisty conspiracy theories.

Alex Jones is awful btw. I do not understand why people are into that guy as some sort of information authority. The guy would not be out of place selling NFL rugs at a flea market. I wouldn't trust him to give me a good deal either.

Alex Jones is awful, I'm more concerned with Piecznik because apparently his specialty was in Psy-Op training, that's gnarly stuff.

And Bush does get into some seriously twisty conspiracy theories, but let me clear up the definition of consipracy first, it doesn't mean looney or not plausible, it just means a group of conspirators working together.

But the fact that we attacked Iraq after 9/11 never made sense, we all know it was for the oil. KBP and Halliburton, both Cheney and Bush's companies pretty much, we're given a majority of the contracts during the war. KBP was even given the right to take full control of every oil well that they deemed was in an emergency state, that means full control of the oil supply and full control of the profits. It makes sense that Bush wouldn't want Osama's death to be public because then public opinion would lean towards pulling the troops out, who were pretty much providing protection to contractors working oil wells. There's probably a thousand other reasons too, but it just pisses me off that we really are constantly being lied to about everything our government is doing.

[BART]

I think the U.S. went to war because it had strategic concerns, in addition to a need to answer 9/11. Oil is obvious, but the oil issue is guaranteeing future supply and not allowing other entities have too much control over that supply. I don't think people concocted 9/11 and a war to make Bush and Cheney rich (or their friends). I mean that is crazy. Are there some bro deals going on when contracts are awarded, sure. But the other reality is that very few corporations (if any?) can handle the level of operation and logistics Halliburton can.

Is it surprising that the people in top government also have connections or professional history in the major corporations and business institutions in the world? That is how our capitalist democratic system works. It elects connected people with deep financial resources. (unfortunately?) So the fact that these connections exist doesn't really mean anything to me. Our government is full of business leaders and financially connected people.

[nukka-cp]

I think the U.S. went to war because it had strategic concerns, among other things. I don't think this was concocted to make Bush and Cheney rich (or their friends). I mean that is crazy.

Dude bart, you're really disappointing me haha. I wish I was making this stuff up man. I'm just telling you the facts, if you did your research into it you would see it as well. I wrote a paper on the issue and bullshit research will not fly. There's shit on CSPAN showing flat out the connection between Cheney and Halliburton and Bush of course. The strategic concerns, are also bullshit claims to go to war with a country to establish America as a dominant power. We take the oil they have and spur the economy with war time jobs and boom America is in the green with a happy populace, albeit an angry one at muslims.

[Dzan]

...and we're off into conspiracy theory land.

[BART]

I edited, Nukka.

[nukka-cp]

I don't think this was concocted 9/11 and a war to make Bush and Cheney rich (or their friends). I mean that is crazy. Are there some bro deals going on when contracts are awarded, sure. But the other reality is that very few corporations (if any?) can handle the level of operation and logistics Halliburton can, so of course they will be a prime candidate for a contract.

Is it surprising that the people in top government also have connections or professional history in the major corporations and business institutions in the world? That is how our capitalist democratic system works. (unfortunately?)

Sure they're pulling bro deals on the side, but those bro deals are costing millions of dollars of taxpayers money and the lives of innocent people. The elite will always be the elite because of the sheisty shit they pull on the American people, and then they smile with a few babies and everyone goes "aww those guys care." There are agendas being planned in the smoking rooms of those million dollar estates, and it sucks but its the truth, and it always has been.

If you ever get the time here's a paper discussing the economics of modern American wars: “War as an ‘Edsel’: the Marketing and Consumption of Modern American Wars” It's a word document so don't think I'm trying to install a trojan haha.

So I'm angry that these men in power think up situations that will yield them more power, and then try to act like they're doing the right thing for the American public. We don't need standing armies overseas, if we invested the man effort, money, and time that goes into planning wars into something that was actually beneficial for the average citizen, then I think we would be living a better life independent of global events. The way countries should be run.


Either way back to the topic, Osama died 2001. hahaha

[nukka-cp]

I edited, Nukka.

yea i saw haha, i was like wtf more shit keeps popping up.

[nukka-cp]

...and we're off into conspiracy theory land.

...where we live. how's winky wonka land?

[BART]

Sure they're pulling bro deals on the side, but those bro deals are costing millions of dollars of taxpayers money and the lives of innocent people. The elite will always be the elite because of the sheisty shit they pull on the American people, and then they smile with a few babies and everyone goes "aww those guys care." There are agendas being planned in the smoking rooms of those million dollar estates, and it sucks but its the truth, and it always has been.

If you ever get the time here's a paper discussing the economics of modern American wars: “War as an ‘Edsel’: the Marketing and Consumption of Modern American Wars” It's a word document so don't think I'm trying to install a trojan haha.

So I'm angry that these men in power think up situations that will yield them more power, and then try to act like they're doing the right thing for the American public. We don't need standing armies overseas, if we invested the man effort, money, and time that goes into planning wars into something that was actually beneficial for the average citizen, then I think we would be living a better life independent of global events. The way countries should be run.


Either way back to the topic, Osama died 2001. hahaha

Hey, if you want to work find and stomp out real corruption and conflict of interest in government... however you choose to do that... I think that is a great mission. Be pissed and frustrated, brother. I feel that too, although obviously about different things.

[BART]

How do you decide nutty shit from real shit?

[nukka-cp]

Nutty shit is stuff that isn't backed up by factual data. Like nutty shit is someone going "dude, bush eats babies because he's part of a satanic cult." But if someone said "bush kills babies," do you say it's factual because innocent babies died due to his order? I do. I don't know though, I have a lot of really well researched books that delve into some serious subjects, and the status quo for a legitimate dissection of events is a lot of factual citations so people don't read it and dismiss it as bullshit. It is definitely such a tricky subject to touch because of all the affiliations with it.

[nukka-cp]

Hey, if you want to work find and stomp out real corruption and conflict of interest in government... however you choose to do that... I think that is a great mission. Be pissed and frustrated, brother. I feel that too, although obviously about different things.

thanks man, I'd love to somehow make a dent, i'm trying to figure it out somehow

[nukka-cp]

Here's a really interesting quote from that paper I linked too.

In our postmodern world, the parallels between consumers acting upon preferences and the “news” being increasingly more opinion than “fact” – as most blatantly seen on Fox News - are indeed striking and compelling. Indeed, the Fox-inspired style of war coverage drew heavily from ESPN: data streams, tech talk, retired pros calling the plays, and the image of battle as a sporting contest, all created a confluence between sports and combat.

[Dzan]

You're suffering from a bad case of confirmation bias. You ignore reports and facts and circumstantial evidence that doesn't support your case, while you give credence to any fringe report that in some way supports your already pre-determined conclusion.

Hint: real investigators follow the evidence to arrive at the truth. You have started with "the truth" and are seeking evidence to confirm it as such. That isn't how empiricism works.

[Boom]

I'd chime in right now but Im heading to the factory. Stupid work getting in the way of my somb time! I stand with nukka on this one though more or less.

[tommygallagher]

Never go into a political argument against both Dzan and Bart.

[Thrillhouse]

You're suffering from a bad case of confirmation bias. You ignore reports and facts and circumstantial evidence that doesn't support your case, while you give credence to any fringe report that in some way supports your already pre-determined conclusion.

Hint: real investigators follow the evidence to arrive at the truth. You have started with "the truth" and are seeking evidence to confirm it as such. That isn't how empiricism works.

This is a very profound and intelligent summary. Bravo. I now have a mega sig

[WSMassiv]

You're suffering from a bad case of confirmation bias. You ignore reports and facts and circumstantial evidence that doesn't support your case, while you give credence to any fringe report that in some way supports your already pre-determined conclusion.

Hint: real investigators follow the evidence to arrive at the truth. You have started with "the truth" and are seeking evidence to confirm it as such. That isn't how empiricism works.

this

[nukka-cp]

You're suffering from a bad case of confirmation bias. You ignore reports and facts and circumstantial evidence that doesn't support your case, while you give credence to any fringe report that in some way supports your already pre-determined conclusion.

Hint: real investigators follow the evidence to arrive at the truth. You have started with "the truth" and are seeking evidence to confirm it as such. That isn't how empiricism works.

DZAN, frankly you have no idea what you're talking about, and you pretty much just did what you're claiming I do. The Osama thing is to make people think a little because I love stirring the shit and watching people like you act like they're gods above everybody else, bitch please. Where's the fracking facts and circimstantial evidence he is recently dead, DZAN? Floating around in the ocean?! Where's the facts and circumstantial evidence he's still alive? Where's the facts and circumstancial evidence he isn't a reptilian alien about to suck your soul from your face? The only credence I gave to any fringe report that "in some way supports (my) already pre-determined conclusion" was with those three Osama articles, and to be honest they have a little more ring of truth to them than some of the shit I hear the talking heads on mainstream media spout off.

"And a real investigator follows the evidence to arrive at the truth?" Well fracking duh dude. If you would actually investigate the way things are run up top, you would be pretty pissed as to what the "truth" is too.

Have you even researched Steve Piecznik? He's a crazy guy to apparently be saying Osama died in 2001, I read that AJ article 2 weeks ago and then happened to stumble upon the Fox link and another link last night. But why would FOX even write an article about the number one guy to get at that time if it wasn't true? I don't know but apparently CNN also has an article from 1/18/02 where Pakistan's president Musharraf states:

"I think now, frankly, he is dead for the reason he is a ... kidney patient," Gen. Pervez Musharraf said on Friday in an interview with CNN.

Musharraf said Pakistan knew bin Laden took two dialysis machines into Afghanistan. "One was specifically for his own personal use," he said.
Link to CNN

Is that circumstancial evidence DZAN? Musharraf stating that Bin Laden, who was in a sickly state, most likely died in late 2001 in the Afghan caves.

And back to Piecznik, here's an excerpt from his bio:
"Dr. Pieczenik trained in Psychiatry at Harvard and has both an M.D. from Cornell University Medical College and a Ph.D. in International Relations from M.I.T. He was the first psychiatrist ever to receive a PhD. focusing on international relations. He served as a Deputy Assistant Secretary of State and/or Senior Policy Planner under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker.

During his career as a senior State Department official, Dr. Pieczenik utilized his unique abilities and expertise to develop strategies and tactics that were instrumental in resolving major conflicts in Asia, the Middle East, Latin America, Europe and the United States."

That guy sounds unstable as frack to me, no accomplishments. Did you even read the AJ article DZAN? Or did you assume it was bullshit? Did you, not "give credence to (this) fringe report" because it didn't support your pre-determined conclusion about the immortal and healthy as an ox Bin Laden?

[The Dtrick]

Comming into a thread where i havnt read one post is very dangerous, but let me say this.

100% hes not still alive.

cuz if he was alive he would have already filmed himself holding the raid articles and that would hot been the biggest frack you USA since 9/11.

We made sure he was dead before saying we killed him, wither that happened recently or not i dunno.

[nukka-cp]

This is a very profound and intelligent summary. Bravo. I now have a mega sig

It's not profound, it's just a way for someone to say. "I don't believe you're argument and I am too lazy to research it myself, so you must be totally researching wrong and not the right stuff."

[ZapBulletRider]

haha damnit BART let it eat, he had Marfan Syndrome



I seriously doubt we just recently killed him and, ah hem, "dumped his body into the sea."

My neighbor works with Seal Team 6, the one that killed Osama. He's not a seal, he can't really tell me much about what he does, he's more of an equipment guy from what I gather (like IT, but has to go in the field w/ them). When I expressed a little skepticism about the whole "dumping at sea" thing, he said that was actually common practice when they kill somebody like that, and it's at least in part because they want to remove the possibility of turning his burial site into a sort of a shrine. He won't tell me things but sometimes he'll let on things just by his facial expressions or body language, and he was totally serious and matter-of-fact about this. Based on my dealings w/ him I believe the sea dumping story.