New material for skim rails?!?

[skimin!kid]

Hey, I went snowboarding the other day and after being used to skim rails, I noticed that the snowboard rails are super slippery and slide great. Anybody know what material is used on them? Because I think if you put it on a skimboard box it would be awesome.

[SACTO skim]

I think people have used the stuff snowboard rails have, but the only problem is that with skimboarding there is sand, and if sand gets on the material you will just stop...and scratch your board pretty bad

[skimin!kid]

yeah, but people have used sheets of plexi-glass haven't they? And besides, it wouldnt hurt to try it. You could take it off and put pipe on if it doesnt work.

[Jim Gordon]

We found this stuff, boats use it for bearing because it doesn't rust or wear out. Not sure if this is the same stuff that snowboarders use. I think it's the same stuff that cutting boards are made of. We have not had time to buy any or even try it, so if some gets some let us know how it works. We did buy a small test piece and it seems real slippery, it only comes in white too.

Acetal is a highly dependable, versatile material that provides designers and fabricators with optimum performance
characteristics. It is a tough, stable thermoplastic offering a unique combination of properties. Key
properties include a high modulus of elasticity, high strength, rigidity and dimensional stability. The material
also exhibits a high natural lubricity, a wide useful temperature range and good electrical ability. Acetal has
excellent resistance to moisture, gasoline, solvents and many other neutral chemicals. Acetal shapes include
low coefficient of friction, good bearing properties and a high resistance to repeated impacts.
TAP Plastics carries Acetal in sheets and rods.
This stuff cost a lot so I would get only 1/2" rods...I sure that would be good enough.

[Kyle Willcox]

^ the father has spoken /thread

[skimin!kid]

Do you know where you can get that acetal stuff? Homedepot maybe?

[Jim Gordon]

Do you know where you can get that acetal stuff? Homedepot maybe?

I don't think they would have it. Tap Plastic does......Sac should have one, check your phone book. Remember, I have not tried it with a skim....but it looks like it would work good.

[noah lane]

One of the major issues here is cost. People continue to use plastic tubing (such as PVC) because it is relatively cheap. I'm not sure how expensive the stuff Jim mentioned is, but I'd be willing to bet the stuff on snowboard boxes is more expensive than most skimmers are willing to spend. Another reason for using tubing instead of a flat plastic surface is minimizing surface area (less contact, better slide).

We still have a TAP Plastics here in Sac. It's on Auburn Blvd. near American River College.


RIP- inland skim rail construction guide

[Hotboxcomp]

sket sket sket

[Jim Gordon]

I thought about using synthetic wood decking but......it's has a wood texture.
And the price of Acetal plastic is not high, $9.00 if you go 8' x 1/2"......but if you go just up to 8' x 3/4" the price jumps to $25.00 each and you'll need 3 or 4 of them. The thing I like about this stuff is it's self lubricating. You'll never need wax or spray oil, so dirt won't stick to it. Right now we are using 1/2" gray pipes and they work good, but we are all looking for something better. One time we tried this bumpy plastic bottom on our skim and it was so slick and dangerous that it was hard to ride or even stay on the rail.......Acetal might be the same. I'll let you know how it works when I get some.....maybe around Easter. So for now I would say just use the gray pipe, I know that works.

[Jim Gordon]

The underside of the synthetic wood has no texture... and some is available without any wood texture at all. I just remember it being slick when wet. Its very flexible... when carrying a 20' section on your shoulder the ends will hit the ground so it would be good for quarter pipes / curved rails etc.

That something I'll look into next I'm at the lumber yard.......you might have something there.

[TreverG]

@skimin!kid: I had the same idea when I rode snowboard rails, which got me into thinking about different materials. Another thing to note is that snowboard rails are being used in coditions that are much lower termperature than you would use for skimboarding, so they will probably less hard/slippier when warmer. Plus they have snow/ice on them instead of salt/sand. Just some things to keep in mind.

Here is a list of materials I've googled, but have not tried myself:

Trex - http://www.trex.com/whytrex/WhatIsTrex.aspx (the fake wood stuff ihaterutgers was talking about)

Plexiglass

HDPE - High Density Polyethylene
UHMWPE - Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene
HMPE - High-Modulus Polyethylene
HPPE - High-Performance Polyethylene
Pretty much all the same stuff. Good for rails I would think. Yes, the same stuff cutting boards are made out of JGordon. My dad has some in his shop, and it is slippery, but expensive
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_h...t_polyethylene)
(aka: P-Tex, Isospeed, Durasurf, Dyneema)

Friction Reducing Paint - http://www.ecologicalcoatings.com/fr...reduction.html

Wood with slime - au natural

Like you guys said, there is good material out there, it is just pricy.

Another thing, I've seen some pretty sick looking wake-skate parks with large boxes. Anyone know what they use?

@JGordon: interesting point about having a bumpy surface to reduce friction. I just got a DashBoard skimboard and I see that they have a very slight "orange peel" like texture on the base of their boards. Not only would this reduce friction, but it would also reduce the "suction" you can get when riding sand with a perfectly smooth board. I definately don't stick as much with this board, and when I pick it up, half the beach doesn't come with it. :P

[skimin!kid]

I have actuallly tried the trex stuff before but it was super heavy and pipe slid better.

[L P]

^ the father has spoken /thread

Of James and Jared and J-Gordon skimboards

[Jim Gordon]

Of James and Jared and J-Gordon skimboards

Lon, I think he meant.........the old guy on here.

[Jim Gordon]

Here's something that might work good that I bet no one has tried. We have a lot of large slugs where we live, and one day I picked one off our window with my fingers. And the damn thing got it's slim all over my hands. When I tried to wash it off it wouldn't come off......even with dish washing soap. So I was thinking next time maybe rub a slug on our pipes......would that be sick or what.=p

[DC]

I think the difference between the slickness of the bottom of a skimboard & a snowboard is a major factor as well. I'd suggest getting an old black plastic bed liner for a pickup truck & cutting it into 6 to 10 inch wide strips. They are corrigated so they have low & high areas. Rip it down the low area & you can screw it onto some wood in the low areas to mount it. The corrigation should cut down on friction & still disperse the weight over a wider area. Not sure if this makes sense or not but you can usually find an old truck bed liner for around $50 or so & they get really slippery when wet.

[Jim Gordon]

This thread is coming up with some good ideas. Good thread skiminkid.
DC.....that sounds like it might work, I have a bed liner in my truck, I'll give it a test and see how it slides and get back to you.
Damn......l just noticed, I sure talk a lot.

[TreverG]

Haha I like the slug idea. I use seaweed juice if I am down at the beach sessioning driftwood, helps a bit.

I've seen an old plastic liner on the beach, but it was half buired in sand and no water was around....I thought it would be sick to ride but the effort to dig it out was too great. I wish now that I put in the effort so I could comment on it. Would you be able to use the liner as just one large box (upside down), or does it need some support to keep its shape under a skimmer's weight? Since it only has 3 sides (tail gate open) I would assume you need at least a fourth side support, and possibly centre support as well. I've never felt a box outside of a truck before, but I would guess it isn't super strong on its own.

Where can you get guar gum?

[skimin!kid]

snowboards and skimboards are made differently but what do you think would happen if you got a wood skimboard hot waxed? Snow is basically just water so I was thinking if might work.
And treverg I think you would need some suport under the liner. You wouldnt have to build something super strong but I bet the liner would collapse with no support.

[Jim Gordon]

snowboards and skimboards are made differently but what do you think would happen if you got a wood skimboard hot waxed? Snow is basically just water so I was thinking if might work..

Yeah, but the snow is frozen. And if you get wax on the bottom of a skim, sand will stick to it and then you'll have a sandpaper bottom. Even if sand doesn't stick to the bottom, it seems that even if a little wax gets on the bottom of my skim it doesn't slide in thin water either.

[TreverG]

Kayotics claim they have tried it, but I guess it didn't work out as well as they hoped. Too expensive for something you will probably break or wear out in one year.

http://www.kayotics.com/aboutus/
(click on "questions" at the bottom, read the right hand column).

What do you guys think about metal rails? I'm thinking that as soon as the metal pipe started to pit or rust it would be game over, so I guess you would need to coat it in something to protect from wind/sand/sun/salt. The coating could probably be put on any surface though, so really I guess you could just end up using PVC with the same coating. Thoughts?

Anyone know what SkimX uses for their ramps?

[Jim Gordon]

Kayotics claim they have tried it, but I guess it didn't work out as well as they hoped. Too expensive for something you will probably break or wear out in one year.

http://www.kayotics.com/aboutus/
(click on "questions" at the bottom, read the right hand column).

What do you guys think about metal rails? I'm thinking that as soon as the metal pipe started to pit or rust it would be game over, so I guess you would need to coat it in something to protect from wind/sand/sun/salt. The coating could probably be put on any surface though, so really I guess you could just end up using PVC with the same coating. Thoughts?

Anyone know what SkimX uses for their ramps?

Yeah....I thought about copper pipe, it will not rust but......I think it would be too hard on you and your board. Still, it might work.

[TreverG]

hmmmm, I didn't think about copper pipe, but it sounds a bit more expensive than PVC. Copper oxidizes though and produces a green patina (i.e. old copper roofs on buildings, or an old penny). I would think the friction would be pretty high with that oxidized surface. Also, it might be a bit trickier securing it down to the plywood.

[Jim Gordon]

hmmmm, I didn't think about copper pipe, but it sounds a bit more expensive than PVC. Copper oxidizes though and produces a green patina (i.e. old copper roofs on buildings, or an old penny). I would think the friction would be pretty high with that oxidized surface. Also, it might be a bit trickier securing it down to the plywood.

LOLz......that's why I have not tried it. When you said steel pipe and rust, it reminded of my copper pipe I was thinking about using.

[Brian Kniveton]

Of James and Jared and J-Gordon skimboards

holy shit. you still remember your password?

[OXS NZ]

I've always wondered about metal. The rust is the biggest negative I think plus it doesn't bend. 1 would think it'd be fast as hell when it's clean though!

[Jim Gordon]

I guess......just use the gray pipe then, I know it works.

[TreverG]

Check this out:

http://tydlemag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=12

Logan says he didn't use conduit or pvc, but it was something like Ptex. I'm still waiting for his reply on where he got it.

There was also another material used on a rail. It was a SkimLouie video recently posted where he is seen "peeling" off a transfer paper looking strip, and making the rail have a different surface. I am not too sure what it is, and I can't find the video as I am at work atm, but I will re-post it when I find it.

[TreverG]

http://skimonline.net/forum/showthread.php?t=35193

I think it was one of these two videos. I think it was a red box or something....anyways, the one he sessions on a few times.

[Jim Gordon]

Check this out:

http://tydlemag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=12

Logan says he didn't use conduit or pvc, but it was something like Ptex. I'm still waiting for his reply on where he got it.

There was also another material used on a rail. It was a SkimLouie video recently posted where he is seen "peeling" off a transfer paper looking strip, and making the rail have a different surface. I am not too sure what it is, and I can't find the video as I am at work atm, but I will re-post it when I find it.

I just tried to look up that pipe, all I could find was (pex) pipe, it comes in red for hot water and blue for cold. It looks like it sold where you can buy plastic water pipe. It doesn't sound like the same stuff as snow board bottoms (ptex).

[L P]

Lon, I think he meant.........the old guy on here.

I think he ment it because your very knowledgeable.

[L P]

holy shit. you still remember your password?

I know, It took me 4 times to log in.

[L P]

Its called P-tex.Its on the bottom of snowboards and skis. The Nemo boards have/had that as the base on thier boards. The good side of P-tex is that if you ding it or it scratches up (and it will), it is repairable.You can melt the material and get the surface smooth,like new again.The down side is that its a softer material. It will scratch a lot easyer and its slides a little slower than a harder plastic base.

As far as new materials for a rail, there is nothing I found that works better than Schedual 40 PVC.

[TreverG]

I just tried to look up that pipe, all I could find was (pex) pipe, it comes in red for hot water and blue for cold. It looks like it sold where you can buy plastic water pipe. It doesn't sound like the same stuff as snow board bottoms (ptex).

hmm ok. That's just what he said, but he didn't seem too sure about the name. I'm going to go to a plastic warehouse and ask the dudes there what they think is best (they carry everything from pvc to plexi to uhmw)