Too Many Board Manufactuers Hurts Skimboarding

[skimmer-x]

I wish it did.

[SANDSURFER007]

Hmm. What were they saying to many companies hurts skimboarding? Nah it all gets sorted in the mix some just take longer than others to die off

[nasolovesyou]

It's most definitely hurting the water. Those skim companies making skimboards that make wakes and disturb the water... frack those guys

[waddsworth]

This is skimboarding not perfect laboratory conditions.

The strength of a composite structure is an inherent and measurable characteristic. Do you think that those measured characteristics simply disappear, or change outside of the controlled observation of a lab? No, they don't. If a particular structure is found to be stronger in a lab, it will be stronger everywhere else.

Maybe you could humor me as to just how you qualify "held up better"?

[omega]

its back

[brett00]

omega goes from green to red

[RexSkimmer]

The strength of a composite structure is an inherent and measurable characteristic. Do you think that those measured characteristics simply disappear, or change outside of the controlled observation of a lab? No, they don't. If a particular structure is found to be stronger in a lab, it will be stronger everywhere else.

Maybe you could humor me as to just how you qualify "held up better"?

Nope

There are many variables that change the strength of composites. Slight variations in lay and geometry can have a huge effect. There's a reason why composites is one the most complicated topics in material science. Chances are a lab tested sample is gonna behave different than what's in your board. There's limited material data for composites in general (mostly because of the huge amount of variations between lay, resin, and geometry) and even the data that is given usually has pretty wide range. You can easily take 2 samples made exactly the same way and apply the same force, and you're gonna get a good amount of variation between the ultimate strengths. So even if you make a board the exact same way every time, the strength can vary by a decent amount.

[brett00]

now omega is green again. i failed.
back to research paper

[waddsworth]

Nope

There are many variables that change the strength of composites. Slight variations in lay and geometry can have a huge effect.

And these variations are within the control of the board builder. Since skims share a similar enough geometry, and quality boards aren't laid up with a chopper gun, I'm comfortable in assuming a fairly level playing field in terms of "lay and geometry" amongst boards. After all, the major companies manage to stay in business, so their boards must hang around long enough to keep people coming back.

Chances are a lab tested sample is gonna behave different than what's in your board.

But my point is that if lab testing determines that a properly laid up epoxy/carbon matrix always displays greater strength than a properly laid up polyester/carbon matrix, why would that not be the case in a skim (assuming, of course, a proper layup)?

Obviously I understand that there are lots of variables that affect the strength of a skim, and if any one of them is not given proper attention, the others suffer as a result. A vac bagged polyester/carbon board would probably be stronger than an open layup epoxy/carbon board that's been laminated with cheap, poorly mixed epoxy.

I really just wish all the manufacturers could produce a sample of their boards and have them independently strength tested to put all of this to rest.

[RexSkimmer]

And these variations are within the control of the board builder. Since skims share a similar enough geometry, and quality boards aren't laid up with a chopper gun, I'm comfortable in assuming a fairly level playing field in terms of "lay and geometry" amongst boards. After all, the major companies manage to stay in business, so their boards must hang around long enough to keep people coming back.

It's likely most manufacturers have similar lay, but they don't necessarily have the same fiber type or weave. And It's not like the variation you have is huge. It's closer to something like your buddy can land some extreme OTB with his board being fine while you do the same thing and have your board snap.There's an average of build quality, but there's enough variation where you get these anecdotes of someone snapping 2 boards in a year while another guy with the same board has had his for 5.

But my point is that if lab testing determines that a properly laid up epoxy/carbon matrix always displays greater strength than a properly laid up polyester/carbon matrix, why would that not be the case in a skim (assuming, of course, a proper layup)?

It's not necessarily always better. Generally epoxy/carbon is stronger than poly/carbon by a fair amount, but's not entirely out of the range of variability you have with both resins. So you can get situations where a poly board holds up better. This is especially true when you're comparing across board companies with the same reasons of not knowing fiber type, or weave

[Jim Gordon]

Just because 2 boards are made of the same material doesn't mean they are the same strength. Why? Because the resin could have dried too quickly (which makes it brittle) or there's too much or not enough resin in the cloth, which either one would make the board weaker too.

[mjs]

I blame the blacks

[waddsworth]

There's an average of build quality, but there's enough variation where you get these anecdotes of someone snapping 2 boards in a year while another guy with the same board has had his for 5.

Yes. The variation is in the build itself, not the choice of materials.

It's not necessarily always better. Generally epoxy/carbon is stronger than poly/carbon by a fair amount, but's not entirely out of the range of variability you have with both resins. So you can get situations where a poly board holds up better. This is especially true when you're comparing across board companies with the same reasons of not knowing fiber type, or weave

Again, the variation is in the build. There's a reason I specified "properly laid up", and I even gave an example of a scenario where poly-carbon would likely be more reliable than epoxy-carbon. Anomalies and outliers aside, If you can't consistently build epoxy-carbon boards that would prove stronger in lab tests than epoxy polyester boards, you have no business building boards in the first place.