political correctness

[BART]

i am making a new thread to not hijack the drifting thread.

I don't want to make a big deal out of it either, but when we have to have a "love month of may" because people got offended, I would say we are walking on egg shells now more than in the past...
And yeah you were right, it was a random place for it, but considering Rearview took offense to a comment Dale made that wasn't even offensive, it seemed fitting...

i guess i just see the whole love month of may differently. obviously a sarcastic response in typical SOMB fashion. the letter to AP issue is complicated. i try to see things for what they are, and it usually seems like a oversimplification to say 'this can be connected or blamed on a larger culture of xyz.' im not trying to be argumentative so much that i think it's interesting where you went and it's a good convo to explore. in fact PC in general is a pet peeve of mine. i agree the typical events of ridiculous behavior used to demonstrate PC-ness are annoying (like the degree of the Imus fallout, as well as many things that put sharpton/jesse jackson in the news), but what is more annoying to me is 'political correctness' has become such a rhetorically loaded term to describe almost any political attitude someone dislikes.

for example, i think someone said it's not PC to believe in jesus anymore. well, most atheists would say it's absolutely not PC to be an atheist in this country either.

i mention that example not so much to spark a religous discussion, but because it demonstrates the point beautifully. both sides --christians and atheists -- blame each other for feeling like politically incorrect outcasts.

what is labelled as politically correct or just 'what is right', largely has to do with the political perspective of the judge. reverend wright's comments were stupid, but they were also very politically incorrect, although i never heard of anyone calling them that.

[veitnow]

i am making a new thread to not hijack the drifting thread.

i guess i just see the whole love month of may differently. obviously a sarcastic response in typical SOMB fashion. the letter to AP issue is complicated. i try to see things for what they are, and it usually seems like a oversimplification to say 'this can be connected or blamed on a larger culture of xyz.' im not trying to be argumentative so much that i think it's interesting where you went and it's a good convo to explore. in fact PC in general is a pet peeve of mine. i agree the typical events of ridiculous behavior used to demonstrate PC-ness are annoying (like the degree of the Imus fallout, as well as many things that put sharpton/jesse jackson in the news), but what is more annoying to me is 'political correctness' has become such a rhetorically loaded term to describe almost any political attitude someone dislikes.

for example, i think someone said it's not PC to believe in jesus anymore. well, most atheists would say it's absolutely not PC to be an atheist in this country either.

i mention that example not so much to spark a religous discussion, but because it demonstrates the point beautifully. both sides --christians and atheists -- blame each other for feeling like politically incorrect outcasts.

what is labelled as politically correct or just 'what is right', largely has to do with the political perspective of the judge. reverend wright's comments were stupid, but they were also very politically incorrect, although i never heard of anyone calling them that.

i was just about to say that

[Colon]

I forgot about the May love-in. I thought that was in jest. People definitely seem nicer on the skim dis.

[Dzan]

The letter to AP thing still bothers me. Skimboarding is a sport mainly of teenage and 20 something men. How much decorum would you expect that demographic to have? When I put myself into the shoes of the guy who wrote the email, more and more I come to the conclusion that guy is out of touch and its probably fake.

I cannot personally imagine going to a skateboarding forum and being shocked when I read posts by rude teenagers. What do you expect? How family friendly do you suppose the threads are on rap forums? Or MMA forums or anything made up of young men?

It just doesn't make sense to expect people to act different on a webforum than they would at the beach. I think that code of conduct works best, act here like you would act at the beach. If you expect to hang with a large group of skimboarders at the beach and not hear curse words, insults, sarcasm and crude conversation you picked the wrong group of people to stand near.

[Utah]

The letter to AP thing still bothers me. Skimboarding is a sport mainly of teenage and 20 something men. How much decorum would you expect that demographic to have? When I put myself into the shoes of the guy who wrote the email, more and more I come to the conclusion that guy is out of touch and its probably fake.

I cannot personally imagine going to a skateboarding forum and being shocked when I read posts by rude teenagers. What do you expect? How family friendly do you suppose the threads are on rap forums? Or MMA forums or anything made up of young men?

It just doesn't make sense to expect people to act different on a webforum than they would at the beach. I think that code of conduct works best, act here like you would act at the beach. If you expect to hang with a large group of skimboarders at the beach and not hear curse words, insults, sarcasm and crude conversation you picked the wrong group of people to stand near.

I hadn't thought of it like that before, but that does make perfect sense...

[RexSkimmer]

political correctness is political bullshit imo

[Utah]

what is labelled as politically correct or just 'what is right', largely has to do with the political perspective of the judge. reverend wright's comments were stupid, but they were also very politically incorrect, although i never heard of anyone calling them that.

I would agree with that. The definition will change with the acuser... The point I was making though is that these younger generations have been growing up in this new "PC" society that the older generations didn't go through. They are constantly being told, "Dont call these people this. Dont act this way around these people. If you are interacting with, or there is ever a chance that you will be, never ever do this"... As a result, we are molding a whole generation of sissies. Part of growing up is getting picked on, being called names, getting beat up, etc... It builds character and readies you for the "real world". Now since everyone seems to handle each other with gloves on, a whole generation is not being exposed to this...


At this risk of sounding like BDirt (I can't believe I'm about to sink to his level and do this), Eminem summed it up perfectly:
"Whatever happend to catching a good ole fashion, passionate ass whipping and getting your shoes, coat and your hat tooken"?

[Dzan]

Utah, ignorance is not something to be celebrated nor are ignorant times to be cherished.

[Chrith]

thought all this jesus talk was about this

Morgan I have seen you go poo in the ocean while I was skimming.

Dude, you gotta be violating some sorta code with that name.

[BART]

Part of growing up is getting picked on, being called names, getting beat up, etc... It builds character and readies you for the "real world".

again, i don't think it's that simple. i think the lesson is to teach people to stick up for themselves and be able to handle different situations. but how is that to be taught (or learned)? as far as telling people to not pick on others interferring with that, i don't really see your point. kids should be taught what is right and what is wrong, what is just and what is not, and how to treat one another. being ignorant is not a virtue, not because it's not politically correct, but because it offers no service to an individual. the whole 'getting your ass kicked builds character', i sort of see it but i mostly see a cliche. growing up 'tough' is a give and take. for every character-building aspect of a kid getting spit on and beat up, i'll show you some baggage from the same experience that is a hinderance, or a complete distraction.

although i didn't get harrassed a ton, i was picked on a few times when i was a kid. i personally could have done with out it just fine. the way i learned to handle myself came not from getting fracked around with or told i was a piece of shit from some asshole, but much later on when i began realizing who i was was worth being. for example, i was tall and smart, i got picked on for both, so instead i avoided demonstrating my intelligence, and i hated my height. the result is every kid wants to be 'normal', which is a load of crock, but this is what the bullying experience teaches people IMO. i'm not parents need to babysit everyone, im just saying bullying is hardly worth celebrating as a critical 'character builder'.

once i realized my unique traits weren't my embrassements but my virtues, telling people to frack off was easy. but what finally got me there was maturation and seeing the importance of self-actualization. i found that mostly through mentorship and being around mature people. the ridiculing of by my peers in my childhood did very little to 'build my character' in that way, IMO. if anything it taught me less about how to 'stand up' and more about how to not 'stand out'.

[can-can]

Utah, ignorance is not something to be celebrated nor are ignorant times to be cherished.

Im pretty young, but some of the "sheltering" that i see of kids my age just pisses me off. In my public highschool, if three people came up and started punching you, if you took one swing to defend yourself you get suspended for 5 days. I know for a fact that back in the day in the same situation the three kids would get punished (detention or something?), but nobody would even consider punishing you. The "sheltering" part is that they think that by not allowing you to defend yourself under any circumstances, they are instilling some kind of moral in you that makes you peaceful. But really, you will just get stepped on for the rest of your life.

Theres also those lawsuits where people get paid for the most rediculous things. The mcdonalds hot coffee one is rediculous. And there was another one where someone robbed a house, and then on their way out the front door they tripped on one of the kid's toys and broke their leg, and then won a lawsuit for money from the family that they robbed. Theres no more common sense these days. The ignorance is the fact that people don't realize that they are at fault for a lot of their own problems. People used to take responsibility for their own actions, but not so much anymore.

[skimmer-x]

People just need to tuff it out a little more. Parents today tend to sissify their kids alot more in the past. Almost everything can be offensive now. My new slogan in life is they'll get over it. People in general are just turning into sissies. It's disgusting really. Under age kids think they can talk shit and not get their ass beat because of the law. White people can't even mention anything about other races without black, latin, or other calling racism. Yes there is reverse rascism. And i do not hesitat to call it when I see it. If it offends you, then you are guilty of it also. I don't blame all black people for my fence issue so don't blame me for your getting harrassed by the man issues.

[RavesIsBack]

we need to make fun of fat people more. anytime someone that is ugly or fat tells me they are happy with who they are I make sure to bring them back to reality that nobody will ever truly love them or appreciate them and they will be stuck with some guy who cant find anything better and cheats on her with her more attractive sister.

George Carlin had a thing on PC/euphemisms and it was pretty impressive. Had to do with the term "shell shock."

Overall I believe PC is a terrible idea. I mean in some forms it does make sense; running around calling chicks "hot tits" or mexicans "beaners" all day is probably not such a good idea. But calling a retarded person retarded well thats the fracking term retarded. I got into a fight with my ex because she said something like a woman and I said "thats retarded" and she replied, "dont say that, thats offensive" and I said, "to who? retards? they cant understand what I am saying anyway" needless to say we broke up within the week. Stupid liberal feminist, chick wants to be a psychiatrist and has more problems than any person she would ever deal with.

[ZapBulletRider]

as I said before, the May love month was exactly what bart said, a sarcastic way of poking fun at how everyone's panties have been in a bunch lately. I mean I posted a circle of hippies and they sheet music for Kumbaya, come on people. Did I need to put an obvious button too?

[RavesIsBack]

hahaha I posted Old Greg for the thousandth time

[Utah]

Utah, ignorance is not something to be celebrated nor are ignorant times to be cherished.

again, i don't think it's that simple. i think the lesson is to teach people to stick up for themselves and be able to handle different situations. but how is that to be taught (or learned)? as far as telling people to not pick on others interferring with that, i don't really see your point. kids should be taught what is right and what is wrong, what is just and what is not, and how to treat one another. being ignorant is not a virtue, not because it's not politically correct, but because it offers no service to an individual. the whole 'getting your ass kicked builds character', i sort of see it but i mostly see a cliche. growing up 'tough' is a give and take. for every character-building aspect of a kid getting spit on and beat up, i'll show you some baggage from the same experience that is a hinderance, or a complete distraction.

although i didn't get harrassed a ton, i was picked on a few times when i was a kid. i personally could have done with out it just fine. the way i learned to handle myself came not from getting fracked around with or told i was a piece of shit from some asshole, but much later on when i began realizing who i was was worth being. for example, i was tall and smart, i got picked on for both, so instead i avoided demonstrating my intelligence, and i hated my height. the result is every kid wants to be 'normal', which is a load of crock, but this is what the bullying experience teaches people IMO. i'm not saying people should be ridiculous and try to completely control kids, im just saying bullying is hardly worth celebrating as a critical 'character builder'.

once i realized my unique traits weren't my embrassements but my virtues, telling people to frack off was easy. but what finally got me there was maturation and seeing the importance of self-actualization. i found that mostly through mentorship and being around mature people. the ridiculing of by my peers in my childhood did very little to 'build my character' in that way, IMO. if anything it taught me less about how to stand up for myself and more about how to not 'stand out'.

Being a bully is not the point I was trying to express. Maybe it came across that way, but it wasn't intended.
I dont condone "bullying" (which I am fully aware I am not going to be able to clearly define in this thread without coming across as a hypocrate). But I do think its important for kids to discover themselves in all situations, both positive and negative. They need to know that when they are an adult, if they are in a tough situation (and not just a purely physical confrontation), that they are able to handle it because there isn't always going to be some one there to save them... Can-Can gave an example in a purely physical situation, but he's right... If that same thing happened in our parents day and age, they would have let them fight it out for a few minutes until it was clear that a few lessons were learned, and then broken it up. I can't speak for all of you, but some of the toughest men I know (both physically and mentally) came from my parents generation.

Bart may not describe some of the below examples as true "PC" since they really dont deal with political issues, but I wouldn't know what else to call them (plus its what the media is calling them, so it must be true...). But it seems absurd some of the decisions being made in todays day and age:


* Schools are outlawing "TAG" on the playground because a kid could be hurt, or feel unwanted when they are not tagged.
* We can no longer call Jihadist, JIHADIST because it is offensive to muslims.
* Universities outlawing teams with "hostile and abusive" names because it is offensive to those cultures
* Teachers are being told to not grade papers in Purple ink because it is less offensive than a paper full of red ink...


If you shelter these kids their whole life, its going to lead to dire consequences years from now...

[BART]

i do agree with the spirit that you're saying frank, but i'd probably say it differently. people should be less emotionally invested in, or concerned about, what other people say.

especially in what celebrities say. i say things in private sometimes that if i were in a public spotlight, i'd get reamed, because someone out there would read into it way too literally.

[rearviewmirror]

Political correctness is stupid say what you think. On a side note, I'm at -49 rep!!! And txsandskimmer-Drifting is racing when you're racing and not ona gay track with sponsors. When 2 cars try to see who can get from point A to point B faster, it's called a "race". Sorry for the long side-note.

[narwhal]

frack yeah.

I rant like Tony Soprano sometimes about how kids are raised now.

Just the difference between my younger brother and I (4 years)....it's incredible how much lighter he was raised.

When I fracked up...my dad would beat my ass. Then my parents got divorced...so the majority of my brothers boy years were just with my mom. Even then my dad lightened up on him. But when I am a father, I will be tough because I honstlty think growing up in a military family was great to me.

I always think the race shit with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton is completely ridiculous. I have lived my whole life in the South and lived in areas very black as a young child. Jackson and his rainbow collation do more harm for the image of black people than good. (my view)

I read like one sentence of everyones posts...

[RavesIsBack]

especially in what celebrities say. i say things in private sometimes that if i were in a public spotlight, i'd get reamed, because someone out there would read into it way too literally.

I CANNOT agree with that more. It truly sickens me that people will listen to a celebrity before somebody that knows anything about politics. "Um well I did a movie where like i played a senator and stuff and let me just say that I believe that people should totally like help Africa because like there are people there who are sick."

[ZapBulletRider]

Africa > all other issues

[RavesIsBack]

Raves: Come on, ZBR. There are a lot more important problems than Africa to worry about.
ZBR: Like what?
Raves: Well, we have to end apartheid for one. And slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless, and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.

[Doctor Delicious]

"Parenting is a lost art".
People suck at parenting and i feel sad for kids who grow up nowadays.

[DrD]

People just need to tuff it out a little more. Parents today tend to sissify their kids alot more in the past. Almost everything can be offensive now. My new slogan in life is they'll get over it. People in general are just turning into sissies. It's disgusting really. Under age kids think they can talk shit and not get their ass beat because of the law. White people can't even mention anything about other races without black, latin, or other calling racism. Yes there is reverse rascism. And i do not hesitat to call it when I see it. If it offends you, then you are guilty of it also. I don't blame all black people for my fence issue so don't blame me for your getting harrassed by the man issues.

The "race card" or "sex card" is such bullshit. And blacks/women say they are discriminated against, which they are in certain ways but no where near the extent they try to make it seem. Equality my ass.

Also, I think there are a lot of social norms that go into politically correctness. The Bible laid out many of the social norms we have today for example.

[BART]

Bart may not describe some of the below examples as true "PC" since they really dont deal with political issues, but I wouldn't know what else to call them (plus its what the media is calling them, so it must be true...). But it seems absurd some of the decisions being made in todays day and age:


* Schools are outlawing "TAG" on the playground because a kid could be hurt, or feel unwanted when they are not tagged.
* We can no longer call Jihadist, JIHADIST because it is offensive to muslims.
* Universities outlawing teams with "hostile and abusive" names because it is offensive to those cultures
* Teachers are being told to not grade papers in Purple ink because it is less offensive than a paper full of red ink...


If you shelter these kids their whole life, its going to lead to dire consequences years from now...

the tag and red ink are always cited as being big examples of the new political correctness, but for the most part they are extreme isolated examples, and seem hardly newsworthy or very significant to me. i think that's part of my issue. these things are discussed ad nauseum by talk show jocks, and everyone's angry and laughing about this 'liberal culture' etc etc, but it's a fallacy. they're outrageous because they're out of the ordinary.

as far as the jihadist example goes im not familiar with what you're talking about specifically, but i do see there is a cultural disparity between the freedom of speech in the western world with that of the muslim world/culture. i agree with that, and it's lame. on the other hand, there is a habit in this country with blending muslims with extremists, but this is a problem IMO not because it's offensive as much as it completely confuses the discussion of the extremist problem and undermines the true complexities.

the mascot thing i actually understand why to native americans the mascots are kind of bizarre. it's not because it's a characeture so much as that they're products of a time in this country when popular culture was really fracking racist and such a thing was popular. how can you not cringe slightly the way natives are represented in old westerns. to me it's not that it's like OMG THAT'S SO OFFENSIVE, it's that the perception was so distorted and people didn't even realize it. that's why i cringe. same with black face. i wouldn't ban old westerns, but it would be pointless to make a new western with those caricatures, unless it was satire. i personally don't care enough to protest a mascot.

so im not saying that PC doesn't exist, but my gripes are that i think the term does get applied too broadly, to issues that are more complicated than people want them to seem. And, often PC examples get held up to rant about a society that doesn't really exist in the way it's being portrayed. o'reilly and glenn beck want to pick out some outrageous thing and act like it's demonstrative of everything, when it's not. it's just an outrageous thing.

[SkimNate]

is DrD an Doctor Delicious some kind of related-club I missed out on?

and I agree with Narwahl, My parents beat the shit out of me and when they didnt beat my brother enough(who is 3 yrs younger than me) I used to beat him. Now my youngest brother(8yrs younger) is a little brat for the most part. I try calmly revealing this to my parents but i think they just have become too soft so I give up.

Man this sounds gay but respect is one of the biggest things we've lost with kids (and all people). I mean I go downtown to play some pickup basketball and this little 13-yr-old shit curses out his dad and coach and walks back to his car forcing his emabrassed dad to leave. He threw a fit and got his way.


frack that and frack me if my kids ever got like that.

[RavesIsBack]

yea I was watching some show where this little kid was acting up and so the mom took her out side and beat her ass in the car. I was like "high fives" then the announcer was like "omg the brutal display of child abuse in public." man frack that, that kid deserved it.

[skimmer-x]

It's not gay, it's true. No such thing as respect anymore. You can't even fight and win anymore without looking over your shoulder. Same goes for two conflicting arguments. No one can let things lie without saying they were disrespected or offended. It sickens me. Like these damn kids in the complex next to me. 10-14 yeard old yelling frack you and frack cops at me like they are going to scare me. I guess it works on other adults if they do it. I stood up to them and went down there to them and they ran like hell. Now they look out for me. I don't get what is going on. I mean I do but I don't. I get all the listen to celebs, do what's in rap music & movies, etc. shit. But the parents are just as at fault also. i used to watch Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, Charles Bronson, listen to gangsta rap, metal, and all the same shit. My parents simply told me that if I act like a,b,or c they would whoop my ass. Ass whoopins and telling your kids the truth go a long way to kids becoming smart adults.

[narwhal]

I see it as...you should hate your parents when growing up. If you hate them...they are doing their job. For kids who were raised tuff but right....when they get older they see their parents raised them the right way.

[RavesIsBack]

yea my parents were lenient with me involving what I could watch and do but they were fair with it. If my grades slipped I got in trouble or if I pulled some shit I got my ass kicked. I grew up listening to rap (and still do), playing GTA, watching lots of Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris, and I am pretty much awesome.

wtf Narwhal? I never hated my parents, I respected them and loved them dearly. They used to beat my ass then 30 minutes come in and explain why I got my ass kicked. Suffice it to say that I only got my ass kicked twice unlike my sister who got beat twice a day, deservedly so too.


edit: something I just saw on TV, "Hi, I am Tom Hanks and I want Obama to be our next president." thanks Tom Hanks, I dont, guess what I know more about politics than you but more people will actually listen to you though because you were Forrest Gump.

[narwhal]

I am talking about immature hate at times. Not I want to fracking kill them type stuff. Children don't understand what the frack is going on in most cases.

[RavesIsBack]

yea I understand but unfortunately immature hate for a lot of kids becomes real hatred and they never mature and realize what was done was out of love.

[skimmer-x]

frack celebrities. They entertain me. That is it. other than that, go frack yourselves.

[sharkboy]

Growing up, I got my ass beat plenty of times, and I deserved it. At the time of beating, I would be so mad at my parents but then I was ok, I shouldn't have lied to them/destroyed that/whatever. I'm really glad that they beat me because I wouldn't have learned my lesson. I would still be doing stupid stuff.

also I probably would have taken my grandma's car for a ride with my friend who smokes wif cigarettes. i.e. "hoodrat stuff"

[DjMattyD]

frack kids....seriously. They are basically a drain on society and frankly are worth less than people out in the working world. Whoever came up with the whole "Will someone please think of the children" pisses me off.
Oh no, but children are our future......well once you invent a time machine and start living in the future Ill give a shit but until then I live in the present and kids suck and there are too many of them.

Oh yeah they make xbox live pretty shitty too.



Seriously though I do like kids generally but I still think we live in an ass backwards society where potential life is valued more than realized life and where youth worship has gone too far.