Who are these people voting for Hillary?

[Mapdash]

Let everybody keep in mind that Ken has gotten all his information about Obama from trailerparks and other white trash hangouts. Shocker.

[narwhal]

At this point, Obama's pastor's comments are the biggest mark against him. Oh what's that? His pastor's comments, not his. People are trying to take those comments and make it out like Obama himself said them. Sure, I have wondered why he would remain in a church after hearing those rants, but it doesn't scare me or really make me question his character all that much. What are people worried about if he gets in office? That he will enslave the white race? That he will only focus on Africa and neglect the country? Please, this isn't a dictatorship, he'll still have layers of people around him keeping him from doing anything too radical, not that I even think he would. The way I see it, the country can't get a whole lot worse, and a drastic change is probably what we need right now.

Not to mention he'd be the first basketball player ever to be elected.

He attends a church that sells DVDS of the crazy speeches, and even quotes radical shit in his first book... Lets not let Obama off so easy.

I gave up on Ken years ago...

[Mapdash]

He attends a church that sells DVDS of the crazy speeches, and even quotes radical shit in his first book... Lets not let Obama off so easy.

I gave up on Ken years ago...

i think zbras argument was.....SO WHAT? What does it have to do with what he will do if he is elected?

[ZapBulletRider]

pretty much... what about that whole "separation of church and state" thing? Of any of the candidates I'd say Obama would be the least likely to bring religion into his decision making. Ok maybe Hillary moreso but only because she's a soulless bitch.

[narwhal]

Questions have huge warrant. I think it's crazy Obama doesn't want to talk about his radical preacher (for awhile he ignored it) or his friendship to Bill Ayers.

The guy is a joke. He gets owned in the last debate after actual difficult questions were given to him. (for the first time) And then it's unfair and he wants to cry. The guy is not ready for the big chair.

And his church has a huge political statement being part of the Black Liberation movement...so frack the Separation of church and state....

[ZapBulletRider]

again, big deal. Guarantee you a large part of him being a member of that church is for political reasons. And I'm sure being a mixed guy who grew up in a pretty white area it feels good to identify w/ his black half, feeling connected to his roots, there's probably a little of that going on there too. I don't fault him for it. I think if I was mixed I'd feel some of that too; in his interview w/ Bryant Gumble about basketball Gumble asked him if part of the reason he started getting into bball in school was to identify with that black side of him, and he said yes straight up, without hesitation. I don't think he buys into the more extreme preachings of that church because, to me, listening to him talk, he seems more level-headed than that.

[Boom]

Obama=doodie
Hillary=doodie
Mcain=doodie

[Utah]

My problem witn the pastor statements is the he chose to not only stay in the church for 20 years, but he had that same radical pastor who preaches hate marry him and his wife, as well as baptise his children. You don't stay in a church for that long, or ask a pastor to marry you and baptise your children if you don't agree with what he is preaching every Sunday, and like the moral fabric of that person.
In fact, he agrees with the pastor so much, that he created a position for him on his campaign as the director of African Relations...

Just the simple fact that he didn't have enough common sense to distance himself from this pastor raises serious questions to his judge in moral character and his personal beliefs.


Hypothetically, If this same scenario played out with McCain and it was revealed that he has attended a church where the pastor believed in, and preached the same ideologies shared by the KKK, I would equally have a problem with that and not vote for McCain. Nor would I have an option to if I wanted to, because we all know that if that were to happen, McCain would already be out of the race. But for some reason, we all seem to be giving Obama a free pass on this issue...

[Thrillhouse]

Praise me bitch, I'm the greatest

[SskimC]

WEll the thing about making a space for the director of african relations made me think a little bit more, because that is kind of shady. But still I feel hes by far the best option, and WHY do people care about his religion. Isn't half the point of seperation of church and state to make religion no matter in elections?

[narwhal]

Obama plays this I didn't know card with his pastor and Ayers.

But do we need someone that fracking naive in the White House?

[Utah]

The question for me isn't necessarily his religion, but it is his choice and decision of who he chooses to associate with, and who he chooses as a "spiritual leader".
As the president of the US, I'm assuming you would have daily decisions to make that most of us couldn't even fathom. Being that I am a christian, I would like to think that our president is praying about the decisions he has to make and is looking for guidence from his God...

[narwhal]

I rather not have someone have access to the "button" that thinks the world is going to end in 50 years. (not all Christians but a lot do)

[narwhal]

Before Whit goes all ape shit with that claim...

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020701/story.html

[Utah]

See I disagree. I'd rather have a president who is not going to go off half cocked. I think our nation was founded by God fearing men and I think it is healthy to have a person in charge who will feel at least a bit like he has a higher being to answer to someday...

And for the record robs, no I do not believe thhe world is going to end in 50 years. Nor do I know of a single CHristian who does (no I haven't read the article you posted yet)...

[narwhal]

Some religious people have a warped reality, that is the only thing that worries me.

[skimnj973]

ron paul ftw

[ZapBulletRider]

I hate the term "God-fearing"... if you "fear" your God then something is wrong with that.

[RexSkimmer]

true

[narwhal]

Belief in a cruel God---> makes a cruel man.

[ZapBulletRider]

you are ----> what you eat

[sealice aka lone ranger]

My problem witn the pastor statements is the he chose to not only stay in the church for 20 years, but he had that same radical pastor who preaches hate marry him and his wife, as well as baptise his children. You don't stay in a church for that long, or ask a pastor to marry you and baptise your children if you don't agree with what he is preaching every Sunday, and like the moral fabric of that person.
In fact, he agrees with the pastor so much, that he created a position for him on his campaign as the director of African Relations...

Just the simple fact that he didn't have enough common sense to distance himself from this pastor raises serious questions to his judge in moral character and his personal beliefs.


Hypothetically, If this same scenario played out with McCain and it was revealed that he has attended a church where the pastor believed in, and preached the same ideologies shared by the KKK, I would equally have a problem with that and not vote for McCain. Nor would I have an option to if I wanted to, because we all know that if that were to happen, McCain would already be out of the race. But for some reason, we all seem to be giving Obama a free pass on this issue...

a fracking men this is why i love you utah you always take the time to type up what im thinking. i am way to lazy and spend way too much time typing outside of this forum to put in the effort.

[narwhal]

Whit

I find it funny that the only reason you seem to defend religion is because your mother is a Christian. (only reference as into defense)

Comes of as comical.

[narwhal]

you are ----> what you eat

So Christians are Jesus? They like that cannibalization!

[DrD]

Yay for political threads!

[DrD]

Whit

I find it funny that the only reason you seem to defend religion is because your mother is a Christian. (only reference as into defense)

Comes of as comical.

Thats one of the main reasons people are religious, because their parents are and they were brought up that way. If he lived in Rome in ancient times he would probably believe in Mars and Jupiter as his gods.

[skimnczach]

But for some reason, we all seem to be giving Obama a free pass on this issue...

Sorry to come in late, but on the issue of giving Obama a 'free' pass on statements made by his pastor (implying McCain doesn't), I'd like to use a quote:

Do you think if Barack Obama had left his seriously ill wife after having had multiple affairs, had been a member of the "Keating Five," had had a relationship with a much younger lobbyist that his staff felt the need to try and block, had intervened on behalf of the client of said young lobbyist with a federal agency, had denounced then embraced Jerry Falwell, had denounced then embraced the Bush tax cuts, had confused Shiite with Sunni, had confused Al Qaeda in Iraq with the Mahdi Army, had actively sought the endorsement and appeared on stage with a man who denounced the Catholic Church as a whore, and stated that he knew next to nothing about economics -- do you think it's possible that Obama would have been treated differently by the media than John McCain has been? Possible?

And -- this is fun to contemplate -- if Michelle Obama had been an adulteress, drug addict thief with a penchant for plagiarism -- do you think that she would be subject to slightly different treatment from the media than Cindypills McCain has been? Anyone?

http://www.cogitamusblog.com/2008/04...on-for-th.html

[narwhal]

Thats one of the main reasons people are religious, because their parents are and they were brought up that way. If he lived in Rome in ancient times he would probably believe in Mars and Jupiter as his gods.

It's a really good point but you did a horrible job explaining it.

[DrD]

It's a really good point but you did a horrible job explaining it.

It got the point across.

[Black]

See I disagree. I'd rather have a president who is not going to go off half cocked. I think our nation was founded by God fearing men and I think it is healthy to have a person in charge who will feel at least a bit like he has a higher being to answer to someday...

And for the record robs, no I do not believe thhe world is going to end in 50 years. Nor do I know of a single CHristian who does (no I haven't read the article you posted yet)...

Our country was founded by slave owners, and woman being "property" too, but that doesn't mean it's right for today.

I believe that Christianity is good overall, and the public won't elect an agnostic or atheist. As long as their core values are there, I would vote for a person of any religion.

People have nothing solid on Obama, meaning nothing bad...or good, really. He looks to me like an empty suit that is a good public speaker. His pastor is the only decent thing against him. Bill Ayers is minimal.

A man with the largest contribution the church received CAN'T say he doesn't know what is going on in the church. You donate over $20,000 to things you want to see grow into something bigger.

[ZapBulletRider]

Whit

I find it funny that the only reason you seem to defend religion is because your mother is a Christian. (only reference as into defense)

Comes of as comical.

where would you get that impression? I was raised in the same episcopal church, I was an acolyte for 5 years and head acolyte for about 2 or so, sometimes I'd do 2 services a day if they were short on people. I liked the message of church but by the time I was 16 I was bored out of my skull sitting in church and I told my mom I'd rather be dawn patrolling on Sunday morning because I felt closer to God in the water than I did sitting in a stuffy building, which was the complete truth, and she let me quit. My wife's family is baptist and we plan on raising our daughter as a Christian. For me personally my relationship with God is not as "defined", I guess you could say, as it is in most Christian churches, I don't think of God as a being so much as a force or something to that effect, the thread that binds our universe. It's not something that can be personified and the traditional Christian image of God is simply anthropomorphization, but it's a tendency of the human mind to do so with the intangible and metaphysical because it's what we know. For me it's something I'm content with feeling and not seeing, and as I'm getting older I find myself less inclined to try and justify it to other people, because God can't be "proven" by scientific reasons and is simply a personal faith. I like the way I was raised, never forced to judge people for their differing religions (except the more hXc evangelist churches that would hand out graphic comics on halloween & such, my Mom was constantly telling us to stay away from that) and I want the same for my child. When she's old enough she'll make her own decisions, whatever they may be. I never said I defended Christianity solely b/c my Mom's a christian.

[narwhal]

I gave a little warning to reference. What I was doing was getting you to define what you believe in...it worked great.

Would you consider yourself a deist? (or do you believe that Christ died for your sins)

[narwhal]

Our country was founded by slave owners, and woman being "property" too, but that doesn't mean it's right for today.

I believe that Christianity is good overall, and the public won't elect an agnostic or atheist. As long as their core values are there, I would vote for a person of any religion.

People have nothing solid on Obama, meaning nothing bad... good, really. He looks to me like an empty suit that is a good public speaker. His pastor is the only decent thing against him. Bill Ayers is minimal.

A man with the largest contribution the church received CAN'T say he doesn't know what is going on in the church. You donate over $20,000 to things you want to see grow into something bigger.

Hey whats up Obama supporter? nothin.

[BART]

im not worried so much about whether someone is christian/jew/muslim/fsm whatever, i find the the crazy factor stacked on top of the faith more irritating to me. GW has some slight crazy factor that is annoying to me but honestly he surprises me sometimes by saying more religously moderate things than i'd expect. obama's pastor has some obvious crazy factor, but it seems pretty obvious to me that obama himself is reasonable and culturally sophisticated enough to 'get it'. however, i do agree that there is a double standard, and if a white candidate's pastor was as ridiculous about blacks, it would be completely over. on the other hand, there are plenty of preachers who preach destructive things about homosexuals, and for the most part they get a free pass from christians, because 'it's god's word', and anything God is bigotted about is not considered biggotry.

basically we live in a world of people calling the kettle black. i stopped watching the news about 8 months ago because it's just too much nonsense for me.

[MI_Skim]

arnold for realzzz