View Full Version : George Bush Immigration Speech
Aaron Peluso
05-17-2006, 02:43 PM
I think it was pretty sweet. Other opinions?
I don't think it did anything. 6,000 national guardsmen aren't going to change border security in a relevent way. The guest worker program won't ever be passed by congress under the current congress. Some kind of amnesty program will never be passed in an election year.
So really, I don't think it did anything more than to reassure his supporters that he is "doing something." As far as actually presenting practical solutions, meh.
Aaron Peluso
05-17-2006, 04:18 PM
what do you think about the rest of the content of the speech, rather than its impact with the pols.
Scrub
05-17-2006, 04:39 PM
i dont know.i havent made up my mind. at first iwas all pumped but now this national guard thing seems somewhat strange. i guess thats what they are here for though....
Gary Velo
05-17-2006, 04:59 PM
bush sucks..........
what do you think about the rest of the content of the speech, rather than its impact with the pols.
Doing anything is a step in the right direction for me.
Using National Guard to patrol the border is a move I could get behind if it mattered. 6k Guardsmen arent going to keep illegals out. Really, the only solution is to fully militarize the border with our actual army, but that requires a committment which eliminates our ability to go on foreign adventures. For me, its a 2 for 2, for neo-cons its a deal breaker.
The guest worker program I don't know about. My problem is that they want a program modelled after france and germany, but those countries are deeply dissatisfied with their programs. Also, one of the big complaints is that illegal immigrants don't "assimilate our culture" fast enough, but in france and germany its quite clear that the guest worker program prevents assimilation. Instead of a population of immigrants who eventually assimilate, you have a large pool of people who will NEVER assimilate under ANY circumstances.
As far as amnesty goes, I'd need to hear the specifics of it and the exceptions and all that before I pass judgement on it.
Jasen
05-17-2006, 06:36 PM
bush sucks...
he didnt ask about that numbnuts :)
i thought the speech was pretty good, as did all of my colleges
p.s. jake its not that i particularly like bush, but u bashed one of his fairly well written and thought out ones, and he just doesnt have enough (to be made fun of)
nukka-cp
05-17-2006, 06:39 PM
bush sucks..........
that's what jake was referring to
steve-o
05-17-2006, 06:59 PM
Using National Guard to patrol the border is a move I could get behind if it mattered. 6k Guardsmen arent going to keep illegals out. Really, the only solution is to fully militarize the border with our actual army, but that requires a committment which eliminates our ability to go on foreign adventures. For me, its a 2 for 2, for neo-cons its a deal breaker.
i thought there was some kind of law where the army couldn't operate in the US like that. or i'm just making things up and don't realize it.
i thought there was some kind of law where the army couldn't operate in the US like that. or i'm just making things up and don't realize it.
It's possible though I'm not familiar with it. Even so, there is a law against wire tapping citizens without a warrant and that rule apparently doesnt matter so this is hardly an impediment.
Jasen
05-17-2006, 07:06 PM
that's what jake was referring to
whoops i quoted wronge person, but edited it, now its all good
kcskimkid
05-17-2006, 07:08 PM
i thought it was a speech he needed to make if he wanted a chance for his approval ratings to increase slightly.whether they did i dunno.
Aaron Peluso
05-17-2006, 07:46 PM
Doing anything is a step in the right direction for me.
Using National Guard to patrol the border is a move I could get behind if it mattered. 6k Guardsmen arent going to keep illegals out. Really, the only solution is to fully militarize the border with our actual army, but that requires a committment which eliminates our ability to go on foreign adventures. For me, its a 2 for 2, for neo-cons its a deal breaker.
The guest worker program I don't know about. My problem is that they want a program modelled after france and germany, but those countries are deeply dissatisfied with their programs. Also, one of the big complaints is that illegal immigrants don't "assimilate our culture" fast enough, but in france and germany its quite clear that the guest worker program prevents assimilation. Instead of a population of immigrants who eventually assimilate, you have a large pool of people who will NEVER assimilate under ANY circumstances.
As far as amnesty goes, I'd need to hear the specifics of it and the exceptions and all that before I pass judgement on it.
were you listening to the same speech I was? The big point I thought was that the combination of everything at once solves the problem. 6000 troops dont do it alone, but combined with sanctions on employers, a realistic immigration policy, path to citizenship etc... it has a cumulative affect that is more than the sum of its parts....
I didnt hear anything about modeling anything after anyone... however, a plan that "provides a path to citizenship" for the people who are here, and have been here, is about the only reasonable way to handle the current dilema of having 12 million (illegal) people in your country.
steve-o
05-17-2006, 08:09 PM
all this immigration business makes me wonder what the mexican government thinks. do they not give a shit that their whole country is doing its best to leave? you'd think they'd have had some kind of radical social reforms or a coup by now.
Aaron Peluso
05-17-2006, 08:11 PM
they are exporting their poverty problem and importing cash. along with keeping their drug trafficking trade alive
steve-o
05-17-2006, 08:14 PM
alright. before i kind of felt bad for all the immigrants but put into that perspective i'm pissed off now.
alright. before i kind of felt bad for all the immigrants but put into that perspective i'm pissed off now.
the immigrants are just people, i wouldn't want to live in mexico either. do i think there should be an open boarder? no way. but i don't blame people for not wanting to live in mexico. so, in that sense immigrants themselves don't annoy me, because i get where they're coming from. and just because many mexicans might prefer to live here, it doesn't mean it's in the best interest of the U.S. to just roll over. we need to be able to regulate immigration and the border. i appreciate bush pushing forward the discussion at least, because so far no one's done shit, politicians are afraid to move forward, few seem to really have any balls, and it's been an obvious problem for a decade or two. what mexico really needs is for native mexican talent to stay in mexico and fix their country, rather than coming here.
narwhal
05-17-2006, 09:22 PM
It's possible though I'm not familiar with it. Even so, there is a law against wire tapping citizens without a warrant and that rule apparently doesnt matter so this is hardly an impediment.
Last i check alot of phone companies handed these records over without warrants, wouldent that be the phone companies fault for not standing up at first. And anyone that says wait they are sueing the NSA thats AFTER the fact that alot of the records were somehow in the NSA hand's.
Last i check alot of phone companies handed these records over without warrants, wouldent that be the phone companies fault for not standing up at first.
it's not for phone companies to decide what the rights of citizens are. whether the phone companies cooperated or not is irrelevant. the law agrees and binds the government to legal procedures for spying on its citizens, regardless of whether some lame telephone company is willing to protect your privacy or not.
narwhal
05-17-2006, 09:53 PM
But if the NSA asks for to look in your house and you say yes then you have 100 gallons of black ass herion. I think its more the phone companies fault for just handing shit over when they didnt have to what so ever.
DJ-NJ
05-17-2006, 10:44 PM
i thought there was some kind of law where the army couldn't operate in the US like that. or i'm just making things up and don't realize it.
i think youre thinking of the army attacking a state, whcih you can do. not sure of name or details, but i know in the 1800's with succession and civil war (little before) that they passed law saying the army can attack a state
this doesnt sound intellegent whatsoever, nor do i think im right as i sit here and and procrastinate sleep at 2am
Teddy Parker
05-17-2006, 11:16 PM
bush sucks..........
Let me guess, you listen to Green Day and wear wristbands with an A and a circle around it, and more likely than not black Converse "Chucks".
were you listening to the same speech I was? The big point I thought was that the combination of everything at once solves the problem. 6000 troops dont do it alone, but combined with sanctions on employers, a realistic immigration policy, path to citizenship etc... it has a cumulative affect that is more than the sum of its parts....
I didnt hear anything about modeling anything after anyone... however, a plan that "provides a path to citizenship" for the people who are here, and have been here, is about the only reasonable way to handle the current dilema of having 12 million (illegal) people in your country.
Like I said, most of what he wants to do isn't politically feasible and won't happen anytime soon. The rest will make little difference. There will be no combination, and the sum of the parts that are affected will be next to nothing.
Aaron Peluso
05-18-2006, 12:00 AM
so you are saying that his proposal is a good one, but just that it cant happen because of opposition?
so you are saying that his proposal is a good one, but just that it cant happen because of opposition?
I agree with him that something has to be done, and I agree that a military establishment on the border is the centerpiece of any solution you could make.
I don't think a small national guard compliment is anything more than a token gesture.
I don't think a guest worker program is going to work, since it has basically failed in every other country it's been done in.
Lastly, my opinion on an amnesty program would have to depend on how it's structured.
vicskim4406
05-18-2006, 08:31 AM
I saw parts... but then got bored and watched FuelTV
kcskimkid
05-18-2006, 08:32 AM
i saw parts... but then got bored and watched MTV
Jasen
05-18-2006, 09:12 AM
i saw parts... but then got bored and watched MTV
this is why my country is doomed....
shidasha
05-18-2006, 09:40 AM
I'd have to say that I'm pretty much approving of Bush's steps towards immigration. I feel like almost all illegal immigrants should have somewhat of an easy way to gain citizenship. It's rediculous how much people make and DONT pay taxes. It really puts the middle class at a disadvantage with fewer jobs that are available because of cheaper labor supplied by illegal immigrants. It's amazing how much some immigrants make! I knew this guy last year that played it off like he was so poor and needed to feed his family and was trying to find work anywhere he could. People would feel bad for him and give him jobs all over the place. Little did they know he was a multi-millionaire and owned multiple houses on the santa monica coast and was sending money to his family outside the country to come up and live with him in the US. This whole situation has become complete out of control and it's nice to see something finally being done about it. PHEW!
Whenever I see people who can't spell ridiculous, it makes me think they don't read much, because if you read a lot you see it spelled correctly. When I hear people who don't read a lot give their political opinion I usually hear something 'rediculous.'
Aaron Peluso
05-18-2006, 11:22 AM
I don't think a small national guard compliment is anything more than a token gesture.
I don't think a guest worker program is going to work, since it has basically failed in every other country it's been done in.
Lastly, my opinion on an amnesty program would have to depend on how it's structured.
I 50% increase in boots on the ground is more than a token gesture. In fact I would say that the efficiency of training and operations would be greatly reduced by trying to deploy much more in such a short amount of time. Is it enough? Maybe maybe not. Who are either of us to really say? But its more than a token gesture for sure.
Increase in funding for state a local authorities enforcing border issues.
end catch and release
exapanding detention facility capabilities
more technology on the border (including such high tech devises as "fences" and the like)
Business in the states depends on the labor supply. Cutting off that labor supply hurts us economically. We already have a guest worker program, its just undocumented and unregulated. It would be better to document and regulate, as the president proposes.
Hold employers to account for the people they hire.
People already here should have to pay fines, and penalties and catch up to actually earn citizenship by following a laid out path.
All points shoudl be addressed together. (Probably his most important point)
shidasha
05-18-2006, 11:25 AM
^^ you don't need to be a jerk. I happen to read about 2 books a week and try to keep up on politics and current issues as best I can.... when I see people that make pointless remarks towards other people's intelligence I think it's "ridiculous"... happy?
but seriously I think that speech is probably one of the best given by George W. to date. I'd have to say that I respect him for this one.
^^ you don't need to be a jerk. I happen to read about 2 books a week and try to keep up on politics and current issues as best I can.... when I see people that make pointless remarks towards other people's intelligence I think it's "ridiculous"... happy?
I didn't say anything about your intelligence, just your spelling. And you don't know me very well, I DO have to be a jerk.
skimnczach
05-18-2006, 11:46 AM
I only caught part of the speech but I read up on it a little bit later and I think that even though I support Bush's intentions for once that his actions won't do too much.
I like him addressing the issue of catch and release and his solution towards that but the whole 6k national gaurd increase is simply a waste of troops. I think that the fact that he is training more border control to go down and do the job is ok with me but i'm not sure if it will a) be enough and b) work effectively.
This is all assuming congress passes Bush's propositions.
Gary Velo
05-18-2006, 06:05 PM
[QUOTE=Teddy Parker]Let me guess, you listen to Green Day and wear wristbands with an A and a circle around it, and more likely than not black Converse "Chucks".[/QUOTE i hate green day you and converse
steve-o
05-18-2006, 07:02 PM
the immigrants are just people, i wouldn't want to live in mexico either. do i think there should be an open boarder? no way. but i don't blame people for not wanting to live in mexico. so, in that sense immigrants themselves don't annoy me, because i get where they're coming from. and just because many mexicans might prefer to live here, it doesn't mean it's in the best interest of the U.S. to just roll over. we need to be able to regulate immigration and the border. i appreciate bush pushing forward the discussion at least, because so far no one's done shit, politicians are afraid to move forward, few seem to really have any balls, and it's been an obvious problem for a decade or two. what mexico really needs is for native mexican talent to stay in mexico and fix their country, rather than coming here.
i'm not looking down on people for trying to better their lives. i just don't think this is very fair that they come here illegally and then want concessions to be made for them (ie-language, medical care they can't pay for, stuff like that)
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