Repairing a hole in your nose

[ZapBulletRider]

I just recently repaired a hole in the nose of my friend's board, and it turned out really well. So well I decided I would do the same on my board and document it w/ pics, so hopefully it will help somebody in the future. Unfortunately it didn't quite go as smoothly as the first time, but the process is documented nonetheless and should still be helpful.

Disclaimer: Everything I know about working w/ fiberglass and epoxy I learned from reading the internet and working with it. I'm far from an expert and if you see anything I'm doing wrong please let me know so I can correct it.

So, here we go. Here's the hole in my board, I'm sure a lot of you have gotten this to varying degrees. Mine was repaired with some cheap 5 min epoxy a few years back and it had broken up and yellowed, so I took a butterknife and scooped it out.

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair01.jpg

For this job, I used MAS epoxies. I've used them before to make skateboards and I have no complaints. I got these at Boater's World. Notice I got non-blushing hardener, so it would dry clear and not yellowish. The stuff on the right is silica powder, it's really fine and when added to resin it hardens it up. It not only adds structural integrity, it also makes it thicker and easier to work with. Makes it less like honey and more like that little can of glue you used back in Kindergarten with the brush attached to the cap. The more you add, the thicker it gets, so just experiment.

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair02.jpg

I also picked up a little bit of fiberglass cloth, some rubber gloves, and some little paper dixie cups. When resin cures it gets surprisingly hot, and will melt a hole in a Styrofoam cup, so use paper. Not pictured is the dust mask (or better yet, gas mask) I should have been wearing.

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair03.jpg

MAS epoxy is 2 parts resin, 1 part hardener, so what I did was picked an arbitrary amount of water and filled the cup, then marked the line, and did so 3 times. I picked 2 tsp, but I could have gone less for this first batch. I could have used 1tsp.

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair04.jpg

[ZapBulletRider]

When you add the hardener to the resin, the clock starts and you have limited time before it starts to cure and get goopy and lumpy. If you can get everything done in 5 mins you're golden. 10 mins is pushing it, in my experience, though it depends on the resin/hardener you use. As you can see I'm using "Fast" hardener so I had limited time. Make sure you stir it really well, and that you are exact on your proportions of resin to hardener. One of the first times I used resin I didn't mix it well and I had spots that never really cured right and stayed sticky for months. Then once you've mixed it, add the silica powder. Be careful not to breathe that stuff in.

Then, I simply scooped some out and filled the hole till it was about level.

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair05.jpg

I then covered it with saran wrap because I had to turn the board over to work on other spots (I may show those later)

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair06.jpg

I let the board cure overnight. Then next night (I try to wait 24 hours) I sanded it down smooth and this is what it looked like.

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair07.jpg


Now it was time to do the second and final layer. I mixed up the same amount of resin as before, but this time, before adding the hardener, I poured some of it (maybe about half) out into another dixie cup. The reason for this is, I needed really thick resin to build up a hump on the nose, but I needed thin resin to lay the fiberglass. I cut out a piece of fiberglass to fit over the nose and down the sides a little:

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair16.jpg

[ZapBulletRider]

I also cut up some of the frayed ends on the cloth to add to the thick resin, along w/ the silica powder, to make it thicker and easier to shape.

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair17.jpg

Thenit was time to build up the hump:

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair08.jpg

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair09.jpg

And then I took the thin resin from the other cup and kind of iced the top where I'd be laying down the glass. You can see that in this pic, as I'm laying down the glass.

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair10.jpg

[ZapBulletRider]

Then I add some more thin resin on top of the glass and smooth it all out. Be careful to get all bubbles out. If you can''t work them out the sides, you can take a pin and poke the cloth to release the air. I was sloppy and left one there on the left side. Oops.

I also kind of pushed and prodded the little clump of thick resin up into the shape I wanted. It didn't turn out quite as symmetrical as I'd hoped, but it was pretty close after sanding.

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair11.jpg

I then let it cure for 2 days.

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair12.jpg
http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair13.jpg

And, then I sanded it down really well:


http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair14.jpg

[ZapBulletRider]

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair15.jpg

And there it is. I'm sure there's something I could do to clear coat it but I don't really care with this board because it's ghetto as hell. Plus my new exile should be here soon :D

[Derek Makekau]

quite possibly the most helpful 27,249th, 27,250th, 27,251st, 27,252nd, and 27,253rd posts ever on SOMB.

[ZapBulletRider]

haha, not to mention the ONLY...

[Derek Makekau]

hahahahaha...this is ZBR's road to redemption.

[jesse]

repped?


EDIT: not even gonna bother, it's pointless. good thread though, I'm really impressed with the final product

[benmasters]

im not seeing anything wrong with your method. hows that resin in terms of price vs quality? im looking to get some good resin for longboard building.

[ZapBulletRider]

it would probably be better to talk to somebody who makes boards, but MAS has been highly recommended by everyone I've talked to at Boater's World over any other brands they carry. It went up a little in price since last time I bought it; the resin was 30, the hardener was 20, and the silica powder (not necessary though) was 12. Between this board and the other one I did, however, I only used a fraction of it, and half of what I mixed was wasted. Actually more than half, I didn't know until the last batch how much to mix really. I have a ton left though. Really this whole repair probably cost me less than 5 bucks in materials. And I'm not even showing what I did to the bottom of the board, the nose fix is only 1/3 of the resin I used.

[benmasters]

pro tip: put mixed resin in your freezer, it wont cure and you can use the excess.

[dkenn75]

that first pic has to be the worst "ding" I've ever seen! You did a pretty good repair job from what I can see tough.

[Fanaian]

I was hoping to see a picture of you toward the end....

[ZapBulletRider]

You saw one of me the whole time, to the left.

[benmasters]

i shouldve said it will take supppperrrrrr long to cure, not never cure, but close to never. my bad.

[Jim Gordon]

Good job.....I vote to put this in FAQ thread.

[Fanaian]

I want a full body shot of you smiling.

[Jim Gordon]

pro tip: put mixed resin in your freezer, it wont cure and you can use the excess.
Hope your mom doesn't think it's honey and put it on your cereal........;)

[Jim Gordon]

I use epoxy resin on my skims. As far as I know, epoxy resin is epoxy resin. There are different speeds: slow, med and fast drying. I use fast, and it's still not that fast. Like zbr says you have like 10 mins. or so before it dries. It does need to be mixed just right though. For small jobs, I use small paper medicine cups that I buy at the boat yard. You should be able to get them at most drug stores too.

[Jim Gordon]

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair05.jpg
If you're like me and can't use the family silverware like ZBR, you can just use an ice cream stick. ;)

[ghostsushi]

wow zbr being helpful for a change *applauds*

[grmreapr]

really good thread if I ever get a hole or ding in my board il be sure to come to you and ask some questions.

[Jim Gordon]

wow zbr being helpful for a change *applauds*
Yeah.....when I first saw this thread, I thought I might see a guy with a hole in his face or something. ;)

[DjMattyD]

better than my method.

I took some tobacco shoved it in there and then dripped a shit load of crazy glue on it.


seems to work ok

[ZapBulletRider]

wow zbr being helpful for a change *applauds*

I love how people act like I'm never helpful, when in reality I help out people on here all the time. Aside from posts in threads, I can't even tell you how many times people have PMed me with questions and I've answered them through there.

[ZapBulletRider]

Haha I've gotten negged twice for this thread so far, both of which were hilarious. Thumbs up

[RUM_RUNNER]

How did you get negged for providing useful information?

That first pick makes me want to puke at the thought of my nose looking like that but the final makes it all better.

Repped for the info and for helping out your friend.

[ZapBulletRider]

the 2 negs:

-stop being helpful. the fuck do we pay u for anyway

-Sorry but I got to neg you for actually giving something worth while and productive to skimonline

[narwhal]

hahahaha I gave Whit the second one BUT it's a given that this is probably one of the most useful board repair steps out there.

I even put it on the Skim Invasion site (with his permission) because that shit is hot.

[new]

Add to your procedure: a masking tape resin dam around the nose, some white pigment, and milled glass fibers in your resin.

[ZapBulletRider]

ah, nice. Yeah I meant to tape it off but forgot. A very useful tip. I believe you can get the pigment wherever the resin's sold, right? I think I saw different color pigments at Boater's World. And milled glass fibers, what are those? You notice I put chopped up glass fibers in the thicker batch, but that was mainly just for the purpose of making it thick and easy to shape. What do the milled fibers do? Add strength?

Edit: I looked it up and MAS makes both. Here's a page that explains their additives. It looks like while the silica powder I have makes a really strong and high density bond, which should hold up well in this application, milled fibers was probably a better choice. My guess is that I'd get the added strength without it being quite as dense. I had used the silica powder before in building skateboards, because I needed a really strong bond, so I thought it was a good choice in this case. Not a bad choice but milled fibers would probably have been better.

http://www.masepoxies.com/public/index.cfm?fuseaction=prodbrws.publicdetail&productid=69481


Fumed Colloidal Silica (also known as CAB-0-SIL)
For use when an extremely hard solid with high density is needed, i.e. structural bonding, filling and filleting. A small amount of Colloidal Silica ( about a tablespoon per 4 ounces) will add strength to a top coat but still finish absolutely clear. The white color in the mixing cup will disappear when it cures.

---------------

Milled Fibers (1/32" milled fiberglass)
For use when epoxy must fill a void and provide extremely high strength and resistance to cracking (i.e. structural filleting, bonding of hardware, and keel bedding).

http://www.promorevolution.com//cats/26286/images/products/69481l.jpg

[wardovision]

pigment is also available at any paint store.

Yeah it makes it stronger, you did the same thing just with less fiberglass. Amazing job for not having much experience working with composites. +1

[Jim Gordon]

ZBR......the glass you chopped up works as good as milled fibers. Also, you can't get milled fibers or silica at your corner hardware store. All you really need is epoxy and some fiberglass. Cut some the fiberglass up real small and it will work as good as milled fibers. It not only makes the resin thicker, it also makes it super strong. I would say the nose of your board is a lot stronger than new.

[ghostsushi]

the 2 negs:

-stop being helpful. the fuck do we pay u for anyway

-Sorry but I got to neg you for actually giving something worth while and productive to skimonline
guilty for first one lol. my lousy 3 points off are a joke to your rep-ocean

[Jim Gordon]

Just incase some of you didn't know, ZBR repair can be used anywhere on the board. Not just the nose!

[ZapBulletRider]

absolutely. Here's the holes I had in the bottom down at the tail. All that yellow stuff you see is leftover pieces of 5-min epoxy I used a couple years ago. That's why it pays to use the good stuff.

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair18.jpg

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair19.jpg

And on that first batch, I filled them in:

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair20.jpg

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair21.jpg

[ZapBulletRider]

All down there it's worn down to the fiberglass, and there's little holes all over the place. So when I did that final layer on the nose, where I laid the glass, I took the leftover thin resin and just painted it all on the bottom there. You can see where it's wet:

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair22.jpg

http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair23.jpg

Nardog loves it:
http://whitmatthews.com/images/skimrepair24.jpg


J-Gordon, you'll notice the giant pack of popsicle sticks in the back! Got them from the dollar store, didn't want to use another one of our "nice" butterknives (actually that knife was shitty and we have tons of them)

[xghstx]

Damn Whit, how old is that board? And why is the foam brown?

[ZapBulletRider]

I don't know, I was wondering that too. The foam is a really dark brown-gray. It's a Vic Polyvac I bought in 2002. The board I just fixed was like a 2-year old vic polyvac and the foam was white as snow. So I guess they use a different foam now?

[xghstx]

Weird. I thought they were the same board and didn't know if the damage was so old that maybe the foam was waterlogged or something and you were just fixing it as practice or if it was a board you actually ride.

[Jim Gordon]

Thanks ZBR......now this thread is complete.

[ZapBulletRider]

Weird. I thought they were the same board and didn't know if the damage was so old that maybe the foam was waterlogged or something and you were just fixing it as practice or if it was a board you actually ride.

No no no all the pics are from the same board. My only ever performance skimboard (next best was a zap wedge). The one that had the white foam was the friend's board that I fixed before this one.

[xghstx]

Ah, gotcha. The repairs looks very well done. Fortunately for me I pretty much only ride wood boards so I don't have to do much repairs apart from filling in any chunks with resin.

[new]

Where does the line get drawn between board repair and board construction?

Is board Re-Construction allowed?

[ZapBulletRider]

oh shit, I forgot all about that rule. Hopefully this doesn't violate it. Pretty much the reason I made this into a thread was that I was doing it anyway, and I kept seeing J-Gordon's "Repairing a wood board" thread, so I figured what the hell, I'll get some pics.

[narwhal]

I think this is fine.

Yes it touches base with glass somewhat but not actual construction.

[RexSkimmer]

i've gotten epoxy repair down to science, but i've never had bad enough damage to use fiberglass. but i'd say thickener is a must, otherwise the epoxy really hard to work with when repairing large holes

[RUM_RUNNER]

I think this is fine.

Yes it touches base with glass somewhat but not actual construction.

I agree and to extend on this, repairing such small parts on your board would not affect ride/slide/manueverability.

If ZBR had made a thread instructing us on how to turn a tail into a squash tail, I'd say that would infringe on the rule.

*Put this thread in the Old Thread FAQ section*

[ZapBulletRider]

Question for the more skilled & experienced: Is there any reason for me to sand down that painted on layer of resin in the last 3 pics, or should I just leave it as is? It really doesn't stick up from the board, it's pretty much flush, and it's smooth and level. Obviously that's an area that gets a lot of damage in my riding, so would it be better to leave as much protection there as possible?

Thanks

[ever]

Zbr can you fix my board next? :)

[ZapBulletRider]

Sure, 50 bones brah

[Noodles]

holes in your nose are called nostrils, and they should not sealed with epoxy.

...ba-dum tshhh

[ZapBulletRider]

holes in your nose are called nostrils, and they should not sealed with epoxy.

...ba-dum tshhh
I'd like to buy a verb, alex.

[Noodles]

haha, yeah...

but that was really helpful. epoxy work kind of scares me

[jewbacca]

same. my sister knocked my bike into my surfboard and there was a huge hole like half on inch deep the size of handlebar in it and i fixed it with some shitty 5 min stuff. hopefully i wont have to do this soon.

[Jim Gordon]

Question for the more skilled & experienced: Is there any reason for me to sand down that painted on layer of resin in the last 3 pics, or should I just leave it as is? It really doesn't stick up from the board, it's pretty much flush, and it's smooth and level. Obviously that's an area that gets a lot of damage in my riding, so would it be better to leave as much protection there as possible?

Thanks
I just went back and looked at the last 3 pixs, and yes I would block sand the bottom smooth. It does look like it may slow the board down a little and may even make the board stick. The reason I would sand it is because I like riding in very thin water.

[Jim Gordon]

Where does the line get drawn between board repair and board construction?

Is board Re-Construction allowed?
I have made hundreds of foam skims before I stopped and now only make wood. But there is no way you could use this thread to make a foam skim. There is a hell of a lot more to know if you wanted to make a skim, this is only how to repair your foam skim, and I'm sure Aaron would want you to be able to fix your own board.

[Joey Peters]

very useful, thanks

[Mapdash]

Is board Re-Construction allowed?

banned

[benmasters]

J-Gordon, you'll notice the giant pack of popsicle sticks in the back! Got them from the dollar store, didn't want to use another one of our "nice" butterknives (actually that knife was shitty and we have tons of them)

if you like working with the knife (looks nice and sturdy) you can put some acetone in a cup and soak it in there so you can reuse the knife over and over.

[ryaskim]

i just epoxied my board and used your inturctions so far so good, ill have to see how it drys and make sure i didnt use too much or too little epoxy, thanks for the thread it was very helpful. =]

[Jim Gordon]

i just epoxied my board and used your inturctions so far so good, ill have to see how it drys and make sure i didnt use too much or too little epoxy, thanks for the thread it was very helpful. =]
If it's too cold and the epoxy is not drying fast enough, you can take a hair dryer to it. Just make sure you don't get it to hot, because it will start generating its own heat. And it may start smoking, warning the smoke that the epoxy makes will make you sick or could even kill you.....:eek:

[benmasters]

yeah, best thing to do is put it in a smallish space w/ decent ventilation and a space heater.

[ryaskim]

I did notice that it gets hot when the two chemicals are combined and I'll make sure I don't breath in any epoxy death smoke, thanks

[raj]

i have a ding on my board right on the rail and its one of those dings that you think its not too bad but you know if it spreads, the whole bottom of your board will peel off. i was thinking i should dremel it out and than just fiberglass it. any suggestions? should i take a pic of it

[Jim Gordon]

i have a ding on my board right on the rail and its one of those dings that you think its not too bad but you know if it spreads, the whole bottom of your board will peel off. i was thinking i should dremel it out and than just fiberglass it. any suggestions? should i take a pic of it
We all like pixs. =)

[ZapBulletRider]

pic it up... it probably wouldn't hurt to dig it out a little if there's any sand or damaged foam... epoxy's going to be stronger than the foam anyway. If it's not too bad it probably doesn't require fiberglass, but you could cut up little pieces of fiberglass and add it to the epoxy like I did for strength.

[Guilherme Vaz]

Is your board female ? Because on the first pic, it has a vag.

Tuntum tchizz
http://charliechiklisandthemoonlighters.com/colage_enlrg/drummer.gif

[ZapBulletRider]

somebody needs to archive this thread before it gets any more of these ^

[ICantSwim]

great job!

[Jim Gordon]

somebody needs to archive this thread before it gets any more of these ^
There's enough info. in this thread. I think someone should move it to Old Thread FAQ.

[Jim Gordon]

One last thing. If you don't have any actone or you run out, rubbing alcohol works almost as good to remove epoxy as actone. That's all I use, and it's a lot cheaper.

[raj]

ok here are some pics of it. i know it doesnt look bad now, but i know that these kind can spread very quikly and ultimately demise my skimboard! ahh!
http://i40.tinypic.com/34erckk.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/aol3sw.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/aykc5j.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/ajtgtz.jpg

[raj]

sorry for the size, didnt klnow they would come out that big...when i was outside taking pictures of the board, i realized it was really nice out. see.
http://i43.tinypic.com/zxw2dz.jpg

[smallspeed]

very impressed and helpfull

[benmasters]

hmmm, i wouldnt dremel it, just prepare the area you are filling/glassing my sanding it. Epoxy sticks better to rougher surfaces. You could probably glass around the rail if you feel its neccesary, but fiber-filled resing would work fine. Just remember to sand the area and a little bit of the surround area for the best adhesion.

[ZapBulletRider]

that's similar to the split that accompanied the nose hole on my friend's board that I fixed. What I did on that one was took a knife and dug out any sand, then filled with resin and used a clamp. See the clamping done in J-gordon's "Repairing a wood board" thread in the FAQ section. It'd be pretty much the same thing. You could even use one of the 5-min epoxy tubes for a job like that.

[Jim Gordon]

If you can clean out the crack and get it to lay down flat by just pushing on it lightly, you may not need a C -clamp. A C-clamp sometimes can be a over kill, just fill the crack with a small amount of epoxy (use a knife or razor blade to work in the epoxy, and use masking tape to hold it down. Only if needed use a C-clamp.

[RexSkimmer]

for stuff like that i usually just fill it with epoxy

[Ryan The Temp]

that helps a lot

[Jim Gordon]

If you show a pix of your damaged board, it might be best not to show the logo or tell the name brand of the board.