Not cool Allyance not cool (also, Aaron Peluso responds on page 9) [Archive]

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Kyle Thoresen

07-31-2006, 04:12 PM

So i just heard what the prize money totals were. Not cool.

So i guess thats the only thing that went wrong at the contest this year, besides Noogie... poor guy.

Ps not cool

PSS also writing an email to allyance about this shit so im not jsut bitching hahaha seriosuly so gay

Silas

07-31-2006, 04:14 PM

What were they..?

undertheradar

07-31-2006, 04:20 PM

Care to elaborate?

Kyle Thoresen

07-31-2006, 04:23 PM

Jaime only got 900 bucks vs Bill last year getting 4,000

not to metion jaime got 2100 in cabo 1800 something in north carolina... way to pull out allyance... to bad for Jaime and th rest of the guys thats weak for a world champinoship purse

jake

07-31-2006, 04:24 PM

what happened to noogie?

Kyle Thoresen

07-31-2006, 04:29 PM

what happened to noogie?

The money is the issue here.

(S3)

07-31-2006, 04:34 PM

It's always about $.

No seriously, this is a sad day for professional skimboarding if this is indeed true.

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 04:36 PM

can we get an idea of how many entrants there were? i'd like to at least do some rudimentary math.

Piero Grieco Hellmeister

07-31-2006, 04:36 PM

The money is the issue here.
Come on man, I want to know too.

samcollett

07-31-2006, 04:37 PM

that's gay. are a lot of people complaining kyle?

(S3)

07-31-2006, 04:38 PM

can we get an idea of how many entrants there were? i'd like to at least do some rudimentary math.

http://www.fathomind.com/Events/Big%20Top%20Tour/Aliso/Registered_Competitors.pdf

It's almost 4 pages......

J. Saunders

07-31-2006, 04:39 PM

there were like freakin over 40 prosss

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 04:41 PM

and pro entry fee was $100??

oh man...

Walruz996

07-31-2006, 04:41 PM

Dramaa.

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 04:42 PM

http://www.fathomind.com/Events/Big%20Top%20Tour/Aliso/Registered_Competitors.pdf

It's almost 4 pages......

i'd check it out but PDFs lock up my browser for some reason. what was the am entry fee? i know it was higher than normal.

woody was just telling me that it seemed a lot smaller than last year, and looking at the photos i have from it courtesy of ryon, it really does look small...

Pack A Bowl

07-31-2006, 04:42 PM

wow, i never knew the $ was even that high... but yea, if bill mr.winallthecontestsman got 4k last year and jamie only got 900... thats def fucked up.

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 04:43 PM

Dramaa.

i wouldn't call it drama. something else maybe.

samcollett

07-31-2006, 04:44 PM

i'd check it out but PDFs lock up my browser for some reason. what was the am entry fee? i know it was higher than normal.

woody was just telling me that it seemed a lot smaller than last year, and looking at the photos i have from it courtesy of ryon, it really does look small...

i think the am entry fee was 50$.

Dzan

07-31-2006, 04:45 PM

I'd call it hearsay.

skimnczach

07-31-2006, 04:46 PM

that isn't fair

and no, not drama walruz

not enough funding from the main sponsor

they're keeping a lot of the money and not offering as high of rewards

Walruz996

07-31-2006, 04:46 PM

i wouldn't call it drama. something else maybe.

Conspiracy!

Joe Bailey

07-31-2006, 04:47 PM

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 04:47 PM

...well, i wouldn't write allyance.

fyi.

(S3)

07-31-2006, 04:53 PM

Worm was announcing over and over that the pro purse this year was $10,000, and that the split wasn't decided yet, and would be announced soon. The announcement was never made to the best of my knowledge. Hmmmmm....

Man, they shouldn't admit to not having the purse settled during the competition...that doesn't come over as professional or thought out.

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 04:55 PM

kyle, did you see what i wrote? cmon.

Blanton

07-31-2006, 04:55 PM

"one step forward- two steps back" That is unfortunate... Was there an officially advertised purse for the winner?

Brew

07-31-2006, 04:56 PM

OUCH!!!!! thats horrible.

makes you kinda wonder where the rest of the money went to. so over 4000 bucks just for pro entries and probably another 4000 for everyone else plus donations from Allyance....oh wait were there any? yep this is sounding baddddd. sorry James you were robbed amigo.

Kyle Thoresen

07-31-2006, 05:07 PM

kyle, did you see what i wrote? cmon.

So i shouldnt write to them about pulling out from the prize purse???

Aaron Peluso

07-31-2006, 05:09 PM

My off the top of my head calculation is that allyance walked away from this event with 4 - 5k in their pocket not to mention the free headline sponsorship. So instead of paying 3 - 4 K for the sponsorship, they made 4 - 5k which is a 7k - 9k net loss for skimboarders.

Per my conversation with one of Allyance's higher ups last week, he was very upset with his relationship in skimming in general and said that he wanted to 'get through this weekend and then wipe his hands of the whole thing.' I have no idea what promises were made to him etc... but the whole thing seemed fishy to me from the beginning.

He told me before hand that he was going to cut a check for the purse but anyone that thought it was going to be a lot was high. I never thought they would pocket cash at then end of the day, but the dude was pissed.

Frankly, I saw this coming from the beginning (like 4 months ago...). I just never thought it would be so soon or so abrupt. Bummer.

Hopefully some of the people involved in this deal will learn something from it. I kept my distance.

dkenn75

07-31-2006, 05:12 PM

Yikes...:(

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 05:13 PM

So i shouldnt write to them about pulling out from the prize purse???

oh, no. you should do that.

samcollett

07-31-2006, 05:19 PM

aaron, what do you mean when you say he wanted to "wipe his hands clean of the whole thing." like pull out of skimboarding completely? or just forget about something else that happened.

Aaron Peluso

07-31-2006, 05:22 PM

Based on my conversation with that one guy, if he is the dude calling the shots they are done with skimming. But perhaps he was just heated at the moment or is not the dude in charge. I dont really know.

I think their actions speak loudly though. Anyone who promises a 10k purse and then pays out 2.5 holding on to the entry fees obviously doesnt want a long term relationship with skimboarders. Frankly I would be pissed if anyone let them back into skimming in a significant way after that. The purse would have been over twice as big with no sponsors. If thats what they bring to the table then we dont need them.

Also, who ever agreed to let some dudes from NY that nobody knows handle our funds blew it. I dont know who that was, and its not really important as long as it doesnt happen again.

Joe Bailey

07-31-2006, 05:23 PM

Seems to me that someone, or everyone, that has personally been screwed by this company should contact them. I know I would fight for my paycheck if it were short. Afterall, people's families and livelyhoods are on the line. I have tried to contact them numerous times about another issue of the same nature, but have gotten nowhere fast. Good luck to anyone that tries, you have a challenge on your hands. This is such a bad situation!

BART

07-31-2006, 05:24 PM

disappointing

samcollett

07-31-2006, 05:24 PM

wow. i have an allyance shirt, too. i'm curious to know what happened to get that guy so heated. very disappointing.

Dzan

07-31-2006, 05:25 PM

aaron, what do you mean when you say he wanted to "wipe his hands clean of the whole thing." like pull out of skimboarding completely? or just forget about something else that happened.

I'm guessing the former. Sounds like he thought it was going to be a cash cow. I think anyone in the skim industry (besides the folks who were blowing smoke up his ass) could have told him otherwise.

Sadly (or maybe not), skimboarding still has to be operated for the love of the sport and not for money.

Aaron Peluso

07-31-2006, 05:27 PM

Additionally, it is possible that Allyance has legitimate gripes with some of the people they have been working with. Its just unfortunate that they took it out on a bunch of people they havent been working with.

Joe Bailey

07-31-2006, 05:31 PM

Interesting note, not sute the relevance:
The pro's checks were made out from Victoria

Deebo

07-31-2006, 05:38 PM

Jeez what a f'd up deal for all of the people who paid the entry fees, did well, and didn't get much in return. I was really bummed about not making it to the contest, but it makes me feel a little better now knowing that I avoided putting my entry fee directly into some shady supposed sponsor's pocket not to mention all of the gas money and expenses to attend. Well at least the people who competed had fun and have their pride for doing well. .

grahamhsu

07-31-2006, 05:38 PM

They have the nerve to still have a blimp in their website saying, Big Top Skim tour.

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 05:39 PM

seems relevant to me.

hey peluso, remember our phone conversation say...two months ago? like two months ago tomorrow. yeah.

you were right.

BART

07-31-2006, 05:42 PM

peluso right again?

doh!

Kyle Thoresen

07-31-2006, 05:44 PM

Jesus this just sucks and sucks even more... and i think everyone should write a letter to them. Don't write anything stupid or immature like fuck you fuck that but some legitimate letters expressing how you feel about the whole situation... then i can make anti allyance stickers or something gay like that haha

But what a sad sad day for skimming.

Brave H

07-31-2006, 05:55 PM

Fuck any company with a Y instead of an i.... guess the community learned a little something about letting big buissness hold onto the prize money... ain't got no love for the skimmers.....

Fuck allyance!!!!!!!!

Kyle Thoresen

07-31-2006, 05:56 PM

Based on my conversation with that one guy, if he is the dude calling the shots they are done with skimming. But perhaps he was just heated at the moment or is not the dude in charge. I dont really know.

Aaron, any idea of why this guy was so pissed and why he said he was done with skimming? Or, why he thought he didn't have a good relationship with skimming or something like that?

Aaron Peluso

07-31-2006, 05:57 PM

I have some ideas yes. But I dont really know for sure so i would rather not spread rumors.

Joe Bailey

07-31-2006, 06:03 PM

I would bet that it all has to do with money, like all business transactions. If he feels that skimming is not going to bring in a large sum of money on a regular basis, then why bother caring about the sport at all. I'm sure he feels he made a bad decision getting involved in the first place, and since he doesn't know anyone in the sport, then he can just blow it all off with no concern whatsoever, JUST LIKE HE DID TO ME!!! He's got no personal ties to anything or any of us.

Kyle Thoresen

07-31-2006, 06:04 PM

skimnczach

07-31-2006, 06:07 PM

shitty situation

everyone should write a mature letter

give me an address and i'm there

Joe Bailey

07-31-2006, 06:08 PM

No, it never has.

Rhino

07-31-2006, 06:09 PM

Interesting note, not sute the relevance:
The pro's checks were made out from Victoria

This doesnt surprise me cause it seemed like the victoria crew was running the competition just as much as they had last year. I thought allyance would have been a little more involved than they were in the first place.

PETE AA

07-31-2006, 06:18 PM

Kyle summed it up.... what a sad sad day for skimboarding. That really BloWS

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 06:30 PM

yep.

andrewM

07-31-2006, 06:44 PM

go onto surfline.com and look at the story and highlights from the U.S. Open of surfing which also happened this weekend, right down the road in Huntington, and compare that event: the crowds, the attractions, the atmosphere, the stories, with the Aliso contest for skimboarding. Granted, surfing has been around longer, and I know there is more money involved which makes it better etc. etc., but I think that it is easy to see why there are differences, and why Allyance unfortunately did not get what they expected out of skimboarding. Do I think what they did was right? nope, and people (pros) who were not involved with them suffered, but it seems like the guy was pissed, and I'm sure he had his reasons. Also keep in mind, the pros were not the only ones who suffered either, the am prize packages were so meager, fifty dollars to enter, and the finalists barely got back fifty dollars in prizes, and I mean barely. As someone who loves skimboarding it is upsetting to see this happen.

didj prophet

07-31-2006, 06:49 PM

well this is pretty fucked up, for those of you in a position to find out what allyance's deal is, please keep those of us that are out-of-the-loop up to date on what they say about this, personally i think i have a pretty sound theory on their motivation, but like some others have said, i dont want to fuel online rumor mills with speculation

i think the letter writing is a good idea, assuming that the letters are kept reasonable and mature, as has been said already, but at the same time i don't know exactly what it will accomplish, i dont give a shit what allyance thinks about skimboarders from now on, i can't imagine any skimboarders wanting them involved in this sport ever again, if they keep pulling this kind of shit and keep treating their own team riders like that then i dont think they have much of a future in "action sports"

Aaron Peluso

07-31-2006, 06:52 PM

I dont think letter writing will accomplish anything.

But if it makes you feel better go for it.

Aaron Peluso

07-31-2006, 06:52 PM

......then i dont think they have much of a future in "action sports"

my next prediction.

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 06:55 PM

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 06:56 PM

my next prediction.

oh boy.

solvenTim

07-31-2006, 07:05 PM

all this doesnt sound farfetched at all. total bummer. i think a bunch of formal letters questioning this is great. i'm just curious if they'll actually give a response.

solvenskim

07-31-2006, 07:21 PM

dang and i thought they were sweet..

noogie

07-31-2006, 07:27 PM

all the checks from cabo were alliance checks, and the allyance big top aliso were vic checks........everything in cabo seemed more official, checks pre printed by computer even had to sign a W-9 tax form for accepting the money.

fuck allyance

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 07:33 PM

noogie, stop being completely lame and call me back.

or else.

skimcentral

07-31-2006, 07:33 PM

lame deal--I always thought they were a bunch of kooks!

unorthadox

07-31-2006, 07:37 PM

Why didn't the new skimboarding tour run this event?

I really hope that people in this industry don't stand by and watch this happen again. It's one thing to discuss it on the internet, but another to be proactive and change for the better.

Is it possible for the new skim tour (can't remember the name) to setup year long sponsors which contribute to purses in exchange for ads. Couple that with local prize money, and you have a start at least..

Maybe the biggest barrier is just convincing companies that there IS a market here worth starting up..

And why are all you guys jumping the gun and blaming Allyance for this? It's tough to run an event, and I dont think a bunch of hyped up kids need to be sending letters. It's not THEIR sport, it's OURS.

grahamhsu

07-31-2006, 07:39 PM

Yah is that even legal, I mean the whole point of sponsership is your paying and supporting to get advertised right? But in this case it seems like the skim community paid them to advertise...Like we begged to give them special favors and gave them 50 bucks after...

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 07:39 PM

the UST.

skimcentral

07-31-2006, 07:44 PM

don't trust anyone that is not a skimmer!

gulfster813

07-31-2006, 07:53 PM

don't trust anyone that is not a skimmer!

I concur; however, money is the root of all evil.

gulfster813

07-31-2006, 07:57 PM

I never liked that company. Just the way jumped on the band wagon and the way they cater to all these different sports....:rolleyes: you KNOW they down for the money only. It's POP to me.
Hopefully somebody like Humit will take over instead.

Teddy Parker

07-31-2006, 08:01 PM

Ooo ooo, me me me, I noticed Trigg was taking on most of the contest works, AND Tex was there working on the whole situation. Instead of the, in my mind, much deserved vacation from it all that he had talked about in SkimMag he was working on the "shocker" music system. I dunno. Seemed lame...

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 08:09 PM

Ooo ooo, me me me

oh, teddy.

hobo

07-31-2006, 08:33 PM

900 dollars for a world champion.

LAME.

photoskim

07-31-2006, 08:53 PM

all sponsor issues aside, everyone killed it at this contest. The judging must have been really hard, but Noogie should have been in the finals
and I'm still mad you didnt make your anti-allyance shirt for the party
ass

Corey_Ryan_Sucks

07-31-2006, 09:10 PM

wow...noogie its good to see another person seeing the way iv been seeing it ferr days,ever since i heard....."join the allyance".................FUCK THE ALLYANCE....there fucking kooks who have no right to be any part of skimboarding. Make that shrit and rock that shit in the faces of who think the allyance is anything.....have it be your new skim shirt.........................

-FUCK THE ALLYANCE_

Kyle Thoresen

07-31-2006, 09:12 PM

Ryan Vaughan

07-31-2006, 09:39 PM

somebody please make said shirt i would buy one

samcollett

07-31-2006, 09:50 PM

i'm wrote sucks the word allyance on my shirt.

dlux

07-31-2006, 09:52 PM

word

tomskim

07-31-2006, 09:56 PM

Kyle Thoresen

07-31-2006, 10:00 PM

Just for Noogie and all the others who want a fuck allyance shirt with noogie on it...

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 10:00 PM

hopefully i'm wrong, but from the way i've seen a lot of things work in the skim industry as a whole, contracts can be kind of rare depending on who is running things.

Kyle Thoresen

07-31-2006, 10:00 PM

This may sound lame, but I'm new to the post board and I'm also a third year law student. If things with Allyance happened as it seems, they probably breached a contract somewhere. All someone who lost money needs to do is sue them in small claims court (can sue for up to $5,000 and costs about $5 to do it). If anyone wants to give me more info on what happened, I can try to help.

With Aarons prediction of the amount of money they took I think someone should take action on it...

and i doubt an actualy contract was written up... but you never know.

woops beat me derek haha

dkenn75

07-31-2006, 10:02 PM

Just for Noogie and all the others who want a fuck allyance shirt with noogie on it...
Genius.

Blanton

07-31-2006, 10:10 PM

hobo

07-31-2006, 10:14 PM

tomskim, i recently got scammed from paypal so im very interested...

how long does it take?

i already filed a complaint on like ic3.gov or something

Derek Makekau

07-31-2006, 10:23 PM

sigh...

ZapBulletRider

07-31-2006, 10:30 PM

tomskim my brother hooked up with my wife. Can I take him to cort? And if so, can I get a peternaty test done free?

Patrick

07-31-2006, 11:05 PM

That is the shirt.

dlux

07-31-2006, 11:08 PM

ZBR, just whoop his ass

Teddy Parker

07-31-2006, 11:26 PM

Yeah Noogie you are "sick as aids". I had to bring that one back just for you...
And Allyance isn't cool in my books anymore.
We should have MySpace sponsor next year's contest... hah, shit I shouldn't jinx it.

Scrub

07-31-2006, 11:49 PM

this is fucking gay. I swear the moment they popped and I checked their website I was like, huh. I wonder why they just decided to start promoting, must be the money. should of known, shoulda coulda woulda i suppose.

idea: someone make the fuck allyance shirts, sell them, and iwth the profits we reimburse the gipped winners of their purse money.

the Kramer

07-31-2006, 11:55 PM

or have a FUCK THE ALLYANCE contest

Deebo

07-31-2006, 11:59 PM

or have a FUCK THE ALLYANCE contest

haha thats a really good idea. I always thought that their website looked pretty ghetto and wondered why the hell they would want anything to do with skimboarding.

Richard

08-01-2006, 12:08 AM

EDIT : i take no sides

undertheradar

08-01-2006, 12:22 AM

When I was at the contest on saturday, one of the first things I noticed was how "cheap" the whole setup seemed. Lots and lots of spectators, but it sure didn't seem like there was very much effort put into it...considering it was a championship and all.

Sucks that it sounds like those guys half assed it and then ran off with the money. :(

grahamhsu

08-01-2006, 12:51 AM

They did more than half ass it, it feels like they insulted the skim community.

Derek Makekau

08-01-2006, 12:56 AM

ah man, you guys are gonna be so stoked on the contest writeup in FSM.

Teddy Parker

08-01-2006, 01:04 AM

I have a feeling that that was sarcasm and the write-up is more positive towards Allyance, am I wrong?

grahamhsu

08-01-2006, 01:09 AM

Why are you both still up and reading this forum?

Derek Makekau

08-01-2006, 01:10 AM

I have a feeling that that was sarcasm and the write-up is more positive towards Allyance, am I wrong?

...just wait til you see it.

Teddy Parker

08-01-2006, 01:21 AM

Cause I'm waiting to see it!

photoskim

08-01-2006, 01:26 AM

i kinda remember that morning, i think it was friday. hit me up next time you skim down here. Derek, I'll have to check the mag tomorrow, im passing out

grahamhsu

08-01-2006, 01:28 AM

Cause I'm waiting to see it!
haha yah i'm waiting too...

matt_waterman

08-01-2006, 03:37 AM

you would have thought that the prize money would have been higher, but the win was the most important

junwin

08-01-2006, 03:56 AM

ah man, you guys are gonna be so stoked on the contest writeup in FSM.
its times like these that make me mad that i dont have a credit card

Derek Makekau

08-01-2006, 04:06 AM

you can subscribe via snail mail. instructions are at the bottom of the signup page.

skimmer-x

08-01-2006, 04:12 AM

That's the stuff that makes me wish I could hit the lotto. I would put on the sickest, most fair tour ever. Fuck them if this is all true. It's bad enough we are looked down at by the other industries. Now they are going to run around talking smack also I bet. I'm am sad that this has happened. Jamie deserves way more than $900 for that kind of win. If you make those shirts, I'll buy ten. We need stickers. Come the vilano comp Jamie, you"ll get more than that for winning. And we care about the sport.

skimcentral

08-01-2006, 04:43 AM

Actually Beaker should be going to bat for all of us.

TheDL

08-01-2006, 05:13 AM

Dear Allyance,

Can't say I didn't see this coming from a mile away, cause I did... Seriously, what is the point of a snowboard outerwear company's involvment in skimboarding?

You don't make money on videos. Especially not bad ones with recyled footage from skim videos everyone has already seen before. If you do it right, you loose money. High end snowboard productions that sell 30,000 movies a year barley break even. That's how it works. I don't think skimboarding has moved 30,000 videos combind, between every producer, and every video, in its entire existance.

You don't make money sponsoring a flock skimboarders, flying them around the world and what not, when you don't have products to sell back to skimboarders. You loose money. Hell... even if you did have something to sell to skimmers you wouldn't see a return on your investment. unless you are sponsoring Tiger Woods, or Shaq... its a total write off. In a sport this size, its about supporting athletes and building brand loyalty.

You don't make money sponsoring contests. Its marketing dollars. You loose money, especially in a sport this size. Again, its about building brand loyalty.

Speaking of brand loyalty, looks like you guys just shot yourself in the foot around here... but what do you care? Its just skimming right? The most unprofessional sport ever!

Speaking of un-professional... how about stealing photos from one of the most well known photographers in the sport? Pretty rad dudes! Super professional!

I know allyance had a sudden epiphany; to the effect that you were getting strung along for your money, with absolutly no worthwhile return on your investment. I wish I could feel sorry for you, but its your fault for not doing your homework before diving into it. And the fact that you cut and run like this at the biggest contest in the most over-hyped-P.O.S-all-talk-no-action-joke-of-a-contest-series EVER, is yet another fine testament to your un-professional and un-thought out approach to buisness.

Allyance, you guys are retards.

P.S. I'm so sad now... What am I going to do next time I go to cabo and I don't have a nice warm snowboarding jacket?! Sob.

unorthadox

08-01-2006, 05:27 AM

edit: im retarded.
PS nice to see you back moose knuckler..i've missed you.

Derek Makekau

08-01-2006, 05:29 AM

there's no post deleted on my end, jeff.

VeeEyeSee

08-01-2006, 05:40 AM

Dear Allyance,

Can't say I didn't see this coming from a mile away, cause I did... Seriously, what is the point of a snowboard outerwear company's involvment in skimboarding?

You don't make money on videos. Especially not bad ones with recyled footage from skim videos everyone has already seen before. If you do it right, you loose money. High end snowboard productions that sell 30,000 movies a year barley break even. That's how it works. I don't think skimboarding has moved 30,000 videos combind, between every producer, and every video, in its entire existance.

You don't make money sponsoring a flock skimboarders, flying them around the world and what not, when you don't have products to sell back to skimboarders. You loose money.

You don't make money sponsoring contests. Its marketing dollars. Its about building brand loyalty. Especially in a sport this size. You loose money.

Speaking of brand loyalty, looks like you guys just shot yourself in the foot around here... but what do you care? Its just skimming right? The most unprofessional sport ever!

Speaking of un-professional... how about stealing photos from one of the most well known photographers in the sport? Pretty rad dudes! Super professional!

I know allyance had a sudden epiphany; to the effect that you were getting strung along for your money, with absolutly no worthwhile return on your investment. I wish I could feel sorry for you, but its your fault for not doing your homework before diving into it. And the fact that you cut and run like this at the biggest contest in the most over-hyped-P.O.S-all-talk-no-action-joke-of-a-contest-series EVER, is yet another fine testament to your un-professional and un-thought out approach to buisness.

Allyance, you guys are retards.

P.S. I'm so sad now... What am I going to do next time I go to cabo and I don't have a nice warm snowboarding jacket?! Sob.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OWNED

Gunstock

08-01-2006, 06:19 AM

I think its ok for Allyance to take the money. They probably need it. I mean they only have one porsche 911 with snowboard roofracks on it, and a big allyance truck with tvs and shit all over it. You have to think on their end, they need the money more then skimboarding does.

wardovision

08-01-2006, 07:04 AM

Someone within the industry should write a "press release" and send it to Transworld Business.

chrisadkins85

08-01-2006, 07:32 AM

Hey I didn't get a chance to read everything, it has also probrably already been said, but we need a way to pull more peeps and sell more for contests obviously. Especially if the pros are only getting that. I am sure their hardwork and practice should definantly amount to ten times that.

Colon

08-01-2006, 07:37 AM

Jesus $900 is paltry. We should all send James $1. The guy who won the Yolo County Open last week earned $1,800. The Yolo County Open, not 'the world championship'.

I'm gonna take up snowboarding just so I can boycott their lame asses.

Corey_Ryan_Sucks

08-01-2006, 07:45 AM

stickers and shirts is a must......

-FUCK THE ALLYANCE-.....thats all that needs to be on it

chrisadkins85

08-01-2006, 07:57 AM

Sounds like we need to have some people put in place that are going to do their job in getting sponserships and promotions and stuff for the tourneys.

(S3)

08-01-2006, 09:14 AM

Editorial:

I'm thinking that the reason Trigg was busy doing all this stuff is only because he took on this deal by starting up Fathom Industries. They were responsible for putting together the event for Allyance.

I think Allyance has a right to be pissed. They essentially bought part of 10th street bros earlier this year and planned to hype up skimming all over the X games with TV ads etc (info based on their transworld press release, which was more of a public relations announcement, slash, advertisement). Allyance was probably promised alot of things, and with the ultra non-professional atmosphere surrounding the skim industry, they realized that it is more the industry trying to suck money from corporate sponsors, and having nothing to give in return, than it is bringing them more customers and a positive ROI.

Here is the deal with skimboarding in its current state. You have a few people near the top of the industry that are making money. I'll go ahead and go out on a limb here, and say that Bill Bryan is taking everyone to the cleaners and then hanging you all out to dry. He was the one who swung the deal with Allyance to begin with, selling off a portion of 10th Street Bros then leveraging himself and his connections within the industry to bring them (Allyance) to the forefront with the Big Top skim Series. Very ballsy move, and very acceptable in the business world. Bill is in a very tight predicament. On one hand he wants to make as much money as possible for himself and his family. On the other, if it's not done right, the sport doesn't win, nor do the corporations that come into the sport. Then the money goes away completely and he is the only one left that benefited.

Allyance probably did their homework and said, we do not have the resources to put on these skimboarding events, nor do we know anything about the sport, so in order for us to go forward, we need to hire an outside events company to do this for us. Enter Fathom Industries. Formed by Victoria staffer Trigg Garner. I'm sure he and Bill had a few conversations of how this was going to go together. To this day, the only events that Fathom have booked have been those by Allyance. The question is, what will become of Fathom? As much as I like the idea of them being a player in growing the competetive side of skimboarding, I also see it as a conflict of interest with a moonlighting Victoria employee in charge.

In terms of the prize money issue. Both Bill and Jaime are Allyance team riders, so it is possible that they might be compensated seperately from the prize money down the road, away from the spotlight.......but I doubt it.

These are only my very removed observations and I would like for someone to set me straight if I'm out of line, or my viewpoints are way off base. Thank god for the edit feature.

S3

Brew

08-01-2006, 09:17 AM

Wow!! this is getting deep.

Allyance is a joke

skimcentral

08-01-2006, 09:32 AM

Like I said if they are not skimmers you can not trust them to really support this sport. There is not enough money to be made on their end.
And I still say Beaker needs to give everyone some answers.

Heck--at our little local contest last summer we gave a 1000 dollars to the pro winner!!

SCNSkim

08-01-2006, 09:35 AM

First of all, I do agree with your observation on the 10th street bros side of things and think almost exactly the same way as you have. However, your observations on Trigg's intentions with his company are beyond off and no where near the truth. If there is anyone that has tried to make skimboarding grow it is Trigg. If you could see how many hours he spends at home and on the road (all unpaid) you would think he is crazy. And to think that he would put Victoria above the sport is not true at all. Of course if Mo and Paulo are in a heat together he well cheer on Mo, but his integrity and loyalty lies within the sport and then the company. He has created Fathom as a way to separate himself from Victoria Skimboards so he can start running amateur contests and help out with any pro/ams that he can and he knows all about the theorists out there that will automatically categorize his name and Victoria if he is running anything. People like him and Aaron Peluso are some of the best things to happen with in this industry in a long time and in my opinion, they made it an industry and made it grow from a "step child" sport to a legitmate business. They are the people you should be praising right now regarding this sport, because they sacrifice their time and sometimes their own money for this sport and work together when it's needed in a manner that is beyond professional.

skimcentral

08-01-2006, 09:36 AM

So is there the possibility of a connection between the first and second place winners being on Allyance team when the prize money gets wacked?

samcollett

08-01-2006, 09:43 AM

People like him and Aaron Peluso are some of the best things to happen with in this industry in a long time and in my opinion, they made it an industry and made it grow from a "step child" sport to a legitmate business.

i agree with that, and everything else you said. but, i think you need to add Bob Smetts to that list as well. Without him, the east coast skim scene would be so far behind than what it is now. those three guys are irreplaceable catalysts to our sport.

SCNSkim

08-01-2006, 09:46 AM

Great point, I am sorry, I completly forgot him. Bob has done a tremendous amount, my mind was stuck over here at the moment.

Brew

08-01-2006, 09:57 AM

i talked with James before he got his award and he didnt seem to stoked or amped (as a now to be champ should have been). maybe he knew he was getting jacked. well we all know that that was the best skimming spectacle that many have seen in a long time. how often do you see 4 different board companies in a final? James put on a show that well deserved the title and skimmed hard all weekend which leads me to believe he had no idea untill the last moment he was getting screwed. if he was getting an extra bonus after the fact im sure he would have been much more chill and less intense during the contest knowing he was gonna be rewarded regardless of his placment.

just a thought.

samcollett

08-01-2006, 10:05 AM

also, could someone tell me what the deal is with allyance and joe bailey's photos?

skimcentral

08-01-2006, 10:17 AM

there are so many people who do all they can for the sport but do not have skim companies or money to put in--you don't hear enough about them.

And who put up--"the DL responds on page 4" ????

samcollett

08-01-2006, 10:32 AM

there are so many people who do all they can for the sport but do not have skim companies or money to put in--you don't hear enough about them.

true that, mike.

TheDL

08-01-2006, 10:54 AM

Editorial:

Here is the deal with skimboarding in its current state. You have a few people near the top of the industry that are making money. I'll go ahead and go out on a limb here, and say that Bill Bryan is taking everyone to the cleaners and then hanging you all out to dry. He was the one who swung the deal with Allyance to begin with, selling off a portion of 10th Street Bros then leveraging himself and his connections within the industry to bring them (Allyance) to the forefront with the Big Top skim Series. Very ballsy move, and very acceptable in the business world. Bill is in a very tight predicament. On one hand he wants to make as much money as possible for himself and his family. On the other, if it's not done right, the sport doesn't win, nor do the corporations that come into the sport. Then the money goes away completely and he is the only one left that benefited.

Allyance probably did their homework and said, we do not have the resources to put on these skimboarding events, nor do we know anything about the sport, so in order for us to go forward, we need to hire an outside events company to do this for us. Enter Fathom Industries. Formed by Victoria staffer Trigg Garner. I'm sure he and Bill had a few conversations of how this was going to go together. To this day, the only events that Fathom have booked have been those by Allyance. The question is, what will become of Fathom? As much as I like the idea of them being a player in growing the competetive side of skimboarding, I also see it as a conflict of interest with a moonlighting Victoria employee in charge.

S3

I dunno who you are, but you hit the nail right on the head bud. I KNOW FOR A FACT, there is larger number of people in the skim industry, riders and industry types alike, who think the exact same thing you do... just no one has the sack to say anything about it.

however in regards to allyance... I was thinking about this for a while this weekend, and I thought to myself, well yeah, allyance does have a good reason to be pissed. Then I snapped out of it and realized its their own fault for jumping in WITHOUT doing their homework. Stupid buisness move. No sympathy for them. Then they go and bank on the contest while backing out, steal photos from Joe and yada yada yada...

samcollett

08-01-2006, 10:59 AM

steal photos from Joe and yada yada yada...

again, someone tell me what happened here. what did they do with joe's photos?

Aaron Peluso

08-01-2006, 11:02 AM

S3. I dont think you are off base with anything you said. If anything I could only expand upon the things you said. But I dont want to get into a shit talking match.

I did want to say that while fathom was created by a moonlighting victoria employee to put on events, the sport needed someone to do it. Well before fathom came about I asked Trigg to step up and run the event as a contest director outside of his Victoria job. I thought of all the people who could have taken it over (and were making plans to), Trigg was definitely the best guy for the job. Bill had been touting Allyance "taking over skimboarding" for a little while by then and so they needed to have a conversation about it. I believe Bill didnt want to run any events because he was getting paid by allyance so well now that he didnt need the cash. So he proposed that Trigg not only take over the Aliso event, but west st and cabo as well. Trigg was to be paid for his efforts. The amount he was paid was not a lot. Looking back *I think* Allyance was supposed to take over many of the organizational duties such as entry forms and procuring sponsorships. Both of which sides seemed like complete jokes. Everyone seemed confused about the entry form process at some point and I dont think Allynance procured a single sponsor. Trigg got prizes. I got Shark, and its not even my event. The real problem seems that Trigg's company did not retain full contest director duties including handling the money. By and large I think Trigg did a great job and had he been in full control this wouldn't have happened. I don't know whos idea it was to let allyance handle the money. I can only guess.

p.s. I am always right.

Brew

08-01-2006, 11:10 AM

no wonder you have professor X as a avatar your his equal.

hobo

08-01-2006, 11:12 AM

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/8341/cowsgomoooce8.jpg

...................

vic76

08-01-2006, 11:21 AM

If you couldn’t guess already, this is from Victoria Skimboards. I am not going to try and make an official, informal press release type response or some but I wanted to give a quick statement regarding the contest this year. We are not going to bash Allyance as they came in to help the sport of skimboarding and we appreciate their effort. What I would like to say is that Victoria Skimboards put more into this event this year then we had planned. Victoria wanted to see the skim industry get together and keep the event alive which is why we decided to tone down our contribution to the event in 2006. In reality, Victoria Skimboards put almost as much into this event as prior years. Permits, insurance, added security (a new feature this year), judges, announcer, score keepers, heat director, trophies, set-up, tear down, etc. were all covered by Victoria Skimboards. On top of the monetary support, there was the errand running as well. Driving to get the permits (which according to Tex is not the easiest or quickest chore to do), calling the sponsors, arranging to get the product (driving, coordinating with someone to pick them up), etc. Most of these were taken care of during business hours and some were taken care of after the doors closed and we were on our way home.

I admire everyone’s sense of family for this sport and agree that your opinions should be voiced in a mature and honest manner. We just wanted to make sure that everyone knew what we put into making this event happen even though we were trying to tone it back

Aaron Peluso

08-01-2006, 11:27 AM

thanks Vic. We all appreciate your continued efforts at the event. Next year we will try harder to take some more weight off your shoulders. We being everyone. Right everyone?

Scrub

08-01-2006, 11:32 AM

yeah. im so gonna help out lol. im so in the loop its not even funny.

Aaron Peluso

08-01-2006, 11:33 AM

you dont need to be in the loop to volunteer.

Scrub

08-01-2006, 11:38 AM

what type of vounteering stuff is there to do? i treid to volunteer at skimbash as a judge but i never got a response. if someone asked me i could easily devote a couple days to the event doing whatever. i'm sure i speak for many others when i say i'd be glad to help. anything to spread the stoke.

(S3)

08-01-2006, 11:41 AM

thanks Vic. We all appreciate your continued efforts at the event. Next year we will try harder to take some more weight off your shoulders. We being everyone. Right everyone?

Damn Straight Peluso. I'm planning my trip now for next year. I'm going to get involved in any way I can. I don't care if I rake sand all weekend.

S3

Scrub

08-01-2006, 11:47 AM

i already have it planned the drive with 2 of my friends. so you can count on me. what would you want us to do.

Teddy Parker

08-01-2006, 12:09 PM

Anybody have any ideas for a more reliable, I guess I should say, sponsor next year?

Kyle Thoresen

08-01-2006, 12:12 PM

again, someone tell me what happened here. what did they do with joe's photos?

Joe will chime in if he wants to give more details. But basically Joe and I went on to the allyance site and searched around and found about 5 of his best photos, some of the cover of skimmag, that they wrote copyright allyance over all of them. Joe has never been compensated in over about 6 months... not to mention they still have not takin down the photos. Theres more info about Joe trying to get the money from them, but thats his story to tell.

samcollett

08-01-2006, 12:56 PM

Joe will chime in if he wants to give more details. But basically Joe and I went on to the allyance site and searched around and found about 5 of his best photos, some of the cover of skimmag, that they wrote copyright allyance over all of them. Joe has never been compensated in over about 6 months... not to mention they still have not takin down the photos. Theres more info about Joe trying to get the money from them, but thats his story to tell.

you guys wrote them i assume? isn't that illegal?

skim007

08-01-2006, 01:01 PM

u tell em samcollett

melogold

08-01-2006, 01:05 PM

We should all send James $1.

someone give me his address and i'll gladly send him $1

Kyle Thoresen

08-01-2006, 02:13 PM

you guys wrote them i assume? isn't that illegal?

Yea. wrote them, called them... and the conversation that was held from what Joe tells me wasnt pretty. But thats for Joe to tell.

samcollett

08-01-2006, 02:21 PM

Yea. wrote them, called them... and the conversation that was held from what Joe tells me wasnt pretty. But thats for Joe to tell.

thats' crazy. are the pictures still up thor?

Ryon Graf

08-01-2006, 02:26 PM

I would like to volunteer for the vic (can we still call it that?)

jake

08-01-2006, 02:40 PM

Copyright infringement
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Copyright infringement is the unauthorized use of copyrighted material in a manner that violates one of the original copyright owner's exclusive rights, such as the right to reproduce or perform the copyrighted work, or to make derivative works that build upon it. The slang term bootleg (derived from the use of the shank of a boot for the purposes of smuggling) is often used to describe illicitly copied material.

In many jurisdictions, such as the United States, copyright infringement is a strict liability tort or crime. This means that the plaintiff or prosecutor must only prove that the act of copying or actus reus was committed by the defendant, and need not prove guilty intent or mens rea. Good faith, standing alone, is no defense.

For electronic and audio-visual media, unauthorized reproduction and distribution is often referred to as piracy or theft (an early reference was made by Alfred Tennyson in the preface to his poem "The Lover's Tale" in 1879 where he mentions that sections of this work "have of late been mercilessly pirated".) The legal basis for this usage dates from the same era, and has been consistently applied until the present time.[1] Critics of the use of "software piracy" to describe such practices contend that it unfairly compares a crime that makes no victim - except for those that would have profited from hypothetically lost sales - with the violent actions of organized thieves and murderers; it also confuses mere illegal copying of material with the intentional and malicious penetration of computer systems to which one does not legally have access. As a consequence, "software piracy" is a somewhat loaded term. "Theft" or "stealing" are considered even more inflammatory, as well as legally misleading.[2]

Methods of copyright infringement

The unlawful downloading and sharing of recorded music in the form of MP3 and other small, lossy audio files is still widespread, even after the demise of Napster and a series of infringement suits brought by the American recording industry against music-sharing individuals seemingly chosen at random. Promotional screener DVDs distributed by movie studios (often for consideration for awards) are a common source of unauthorised copying when movies are still in theatrical release, and the MPAA has attempted to restrict their use. Movies are also still copied by someone sneaking a camcorder into a movie theater and secretly taping the projection (also known as "CAM"), although such copies are often of lesser quality than officially released version of the film. Sharing copied music is legal in many countries, such as Canada, and parts of Europe, provided that this information is neither advertised, nor that the songs be sold.

Bootleg recordings are musical recordings that have not been officially released by the artist or their associated management or production companies. They may consist of demos, outtakes or other studio material, or of illicit recordings of live performances. Music enthusiasts may use the term "bootleg" to differentiate these otherwise unavailable recordings from "pirated" copies of commercially released material, but these recordings are still protected by copyright despite their lack of formal release, and their distribution is still against the law.

Penalties

Though many jurisdictions impose criminal penalties for certain blatant acts of copyright infringement and may try to stop certain infringing imports at the border, copyright infringement is still mainly prosecuted through private lawsuits by the copyright holder or their exclusive licensees. When successful, these lawsuits will typically impose monetary damages against the infringer as well as injunctions against future infringing uses.

Many infringement claims involve simple cases of copyright infringement where the copying is obvious. Others, however, are more difficult to resolve because copyright protection is not limited to exact copying. It is inevitable that creative and commercial works will take inspiration from the culture at large, and it is often challenging to determine when this "inspiration" has crossed the line into infringement, especially in the case of musical works. There also may be a question of whether the allegedly infringed work is even protected by copyright. Unprotected works may include, for example, compilations of facts that lack the requisite creativity to be covered by copyright, or those works that are in the public domain because the copyright term expired.

Copyright notices—often just a simple statement on the work itself of the year protection was acquired and by whom—are not always a good indication of whether a work is protected because most countries do not require such formalities, and so lack of notice does not mean lack of protection. Courts may also subsequently decide in the context of an infringement suit that the work did not meet the minimum criteria for copyright protection, even if the work had been previously registered by a government or private copyright agency. However, copyright notices give at least some indication of whom to contact if permission is needed, and when a copyright will expire, though the copyright terms of preexisting works are sometimes legislatively extended (as with the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act) or even restored after expiration (as with the Directive on harmonising the term of copyright protection in the European Union).

To avoid infringement claims, the right to make use of a copyrighted work can be acquired through an explicit contract or license with the author or publisher, through purchasing a lawful copy (which may provide a number of rights to the purchaser, as under the first-sale doctrine), and for certain types of media, statutory licenses (such as for reproducing and recording musical works under U.S. copyright law). Even without going through such channels to get prior authorization for use of the copyrighted material, doctrines such as fair use or fair dealing may provide potentially broad defenses to infringement claims. The failure of a copyright holder to bring a timely lawsuit against known infringers may later block such a claim by establishing an implied license, as may other acts or omissions that could informally signal consent to use the work.

Copyright misuse, the exploitive or restrictive use of a copyright by its legal holder, is sometimes informally called reverse piracy.
[edit]

Justification

Copyright holders and anti-piracy organizations commonly release statistics showing their losses due to piracy in an attempt to deter the activity. For example, the MPAA estimates the global cost of film piracy in 2002 to be $3.5 billion.[3] Many, including those engaged in piracy, however, are often critical of these figures. It is unreasonable to assume that every download of a film represents a lost movie ticket or DVD purchase: a person who downloads a film may not necessarily have gone to the theater or have purchased a DVD had the download not been available. Furthermore, there are instances of films benefiting from the exposure, particularly independent and cult films.

In general, there are a number of rationales used by pirates to morally justify their actions. Not all those engaged in the activity bother to do so, reasoning that their money would not have made much difference, and is better used for material purposes. Many also question these claims' validity as rationales.

* Piracy is sometimes claimed as a form of boycott. For example, selective piracy of music published by major record labels can be used to protest the low percentage of total record sales that is paid back to artists.
* With the try before you buy mentality, if a downloaded album, film or piece of software is deemed useful the person will then buy it, otherwise it is deleted.
* Conversely, some choose to download only those products which they would otherwise be unable to afford, reasoning that in so doing they do not damage any company's profits. However, it bears consideration that the individual may have otherwise purchased a less expensive version instead.
* Many legitimate products are unavailable in parts of the world, as they are often too expensive for most of the local populace to afford. In much of the third world, even people who could normally afford to buy legitimate products can't do so, as pirated versions are the only versions available.

The moral downside of piracy is known as the free rider problem. Usually used by economists to describe the disadvantage of voluntary collective action, the concept is also applicable to piracy. Even when use of a product has no cost to the companies associated with its production as theft does, the lack of financial contribution from the pirate reduces the company's incentive to continue development.
[edit]

Legality

In most jurisdictions, copyright infringement may be established by reproduction of the copyrighted work. This reproduction can often be shown by the presence of an authorized electronic copy of the work on a server. Most common defenses to copyright infringement, such as the First sale doctrine and Fair use, do not fare well in courts.

The first sale doctrine is a defense to infringement of the distribution right. It permits a lawful purchaser of a copyrighted work to resell or otherwise dispose of it. This, however, is not a defense to the reproduction right.

In addition, fair use is an equitable defense, but its application will vary greatly depending on the facts and circumstances of the case. Most courts apply some form of balancing test examining the scope of infringement, the effect on the copyright owner's rights (eg. his or her ability to sell the work), the amount of the work copied, and the purpose of the infringement. Courts have been somewhat hostile to defendants asserting non-commercial use. In small scale cases, courts are more receptive to arguments regarding the effect on the copyright owner's market.

Important loopholes in the United States were closed with the passage of the No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act). Historically, the criminal copyright law required the infringement be for financial gain. Among other things, the NET Act altered the definition of financial gain to include bartering and trading. In addition, members of warez groups may also prosecuted for their participation in a criminal enterprise.

English law

In English law, any modification of data stored on a computer so that unauthorised access is gained to software packages, games, movies, and music would be a criminal offence under s3 Computer Misuse Act 1990. So, if a read-only music CD is placed in a PC drive and the contents loaded into the computer's memory for playing, any crack that allows the music to be copied and stored on the machine or an MP3 player would commit the offence in theory but, so far, there have been no prosecutions on this set of facts. More generally, ss16 and 20 Copyright, Designs & Patents Act 1988 (as amended by the Copyright, etc. and Trade Marks (Offences and Enforcement) Act 2002) protect copyrighted materials, and people who distribute and download copyrighted recordings without permission are liable to face civil actions for damages and penalties (the largest to date is £6,500, or $12,120.55). As in the United States, the enforcement agencies are able to identify the IP addresses and the ISPs are obliged to disclose the name and address of the owner of each such internet account.
[edit]

Criminal offences

For the most part, the criminal law is only used for commercial piracy with one exception, and an offence is committed when, knowing or reasonably suspecting that the files are illegal copies, and without the permission of the copyright owner, a person:

* makes unauthorised copies e.g. burning music files or films on to CD-Rs or DVD-Rs;
* distributes, sells or hires out unauthorised copies of CDs, VCDs and DVDs;
* on a larger scale, distributes unauthorised copies as a commercial enterprise on the internet;
* possesses unauthorised copies with a view to distributing, selling or hiring these to other people;
* while not dealing commercially, distributes unauthorised copies of software packages, books, music, games, and films on such a scale as to have an measurable impact on the copyright owner's business.
* stealing someone elses artwork and claiming it as yours.

The penalties for these "copyright theft" offences depend on the seriousness of the offences:

* before a magistrates' Court, the penalties for distributing pirated files are a maximum fine of £5,000 ($9,202) and/or six months imprisonment;
* in the Crown Court, the penalties for distributing pirated files are an unlimited fine and/or up to 10 years imprisonment.

Also note s24 Copyright and Related Rights Regulations 2003 which creates a range of offences relating to the distribution of any device, product or component which is primarily designed, produced, or adapted for the purpose of enabling or facilitating the circumvention of effective technological measures. When this is for non-commercial purposes, it requires there to be a measurable effect on the rights holder's business.

you knwo whats awesome? i almost deleted "from wikipedia" but then i realized how awesomely hypocritical that would have been

waddsworth

08-01-2006, 02:46 PM

If what I've read is true, then it seems there's 2 scenarios:

1.) Allyance made a poor business decision and decided to make a very risky investment in a relatively obscure sport without proper due diligence, and the sport of skimboarding paid the price for that decision.

Or...

2.) Several skimboarders lured Allyance into the skim industry with lies and empty promises in order to cash in, and the sport of skimboarding paid for those lies.

Or... its a combination of the two.

Am I far off?

narwhal

08-01-2006, 03:00 PM

Peluso.

Does it hurt really bad when you are wrong? I think it would.

This is a sad event in skimboard history, and Peluso is like Splinter from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Aaron Peluso

08-01-2006, 03:04 PM

I will let you know when I find out. ;)

hobo

08-01-2006, 03:09 PM

If you sponsor something, the only way you should be making money is by SELLING YOUR PRODUCT at the event, not from donations, fees, etc.

All the money should go back into the event.

Sponsors get the advertisement, the sport gets the money.

They cheated the sport, this was supposed to be the world championship, where their was supposed to be TONS of money, not 900$ for 1st place.

Infact, maybe the fact that their was SUPPOSED to be a big cash prize lurred in some spectators, ive i didnt know anything about skimboarding and heard that there was a prize money of over 10k i would sure watch it.

900$ is not enough for a world champion; "The best of the best"

tomskim

08-01-2006, 03:21 PM

I would think that there had to be a contract between Allyance and someone else to describe what Allyance's obligations would be when putting on these tournaments. In this contract, the prize amounts should have been in writing. If they weren't, then someone messed up, but it doesn't mean that Allyance makes off with all the money for free. If someone in charge at Allyance told someone at other companies involved in this tournament that "we are going to do X (including furnishing prizes of X amount) as long as you do Y", then Allyance would probably be liable for it. I guess I have a hard time believing that nobody but those at Allyance knew what the prize amounts were going to be until they were handed out.

Brew

08-01-2006, 03:24 PM

im wondering why 10th st. bros would be risking their rep and name to support a company that is not so legit or has nothing to do with water sports to begin with.

Walruz996

08-01-2006, 03:32 PM

Jake, why the hell did you bother to post that?

hobo

08-01-2006, 03:35 PM

i just watched to colbert report on wikiality...

and im sure everybody is readin that jake :d

dEUZ

08-01-2006, 03:35 PM

just to say, we had 1000 euros in the Zap championship here in portugal, for the 1st place, and 5000 euros total as a prize money and we are so small in sponsorships and shit like that comparing to the US...

but i don't know shit about allyance or whatever, just making a comparison.

Kyle Thoresen

08-01-2006, 04:03 PM

thats' crazy. are the pictures still up thor?

Looks like only two of them are left up there... but thats still two that Joe hasnt been compensated for. One is the cover shot of BIll from like 2 skim mags ago (water housing one at aliso) and the other is one of BIll doing a huge shuvit grab air at the aliso contest warm up section last year...

SCNSkim

08-01-2006, 04:06 PM

The amount of the prize checks was not known till the last minute, hence the checks being made out by Victoria Skimboards.

skimcentral

08-01-2006, 04:09 PM

kinda stinks for Vic that all this went down--very cool of them to pick up the slack.

unorthadox

08-01-2006, 04:24 PM

So...

Sport we all love, everyone knows each other by first names, you know most if not all of the skimmers at your home break, prizes and tour organization is sub par of frisbee golf, progress seems to be only made through trick variations with people getting bored rather than huge competition

VS

New sport brought about through "selling out", many more riders, less skimming available at peak hours, less friendly global atmosphere although you'll still know all your local buddies, decent and recognizable tour operation, prize money that can support an individual, progression through competition

That is what I got from this thread. To push the sport you have to be willing to take chances on a company that can bring it to the forefront, unfortunately in this case it wasn't the right match between Allyance's end goal and the skimboarding industry.

It really sucks that this past one turned out disappointing as far as administration goes, but look at the skimming - people are saying its the best its been, the judging was (reasonably) fair, and people travelled all over the world just to watch a couple scrawny kids play in the ocean. To be able to go to the next level of supporting oneself through skimboarding you're going to have to make some sacrifices, but there is always another way to look at it. You're still going to have those kids riding for the love of it, but they might have ads all over their spring suits.

I hope this doesn't sour the industry on outside help, because without a major promoter this will always be a "second tier surf" sport. That being said, this can be taken as a great learning experience for next year. At some point we have to man up.

Canadian_Skim

08-01-2006, 04:24 PM

im wondering why 10th st. bros would be risking their rep and name to support a company that is not so legit or has nothing to do with water sports to begin with.

money.

Brew

08-01-2006, 05:00 PM

i thought money and then i though progression of the sport. beaker and geo both love the sport beyond belief so i ruled out money im my mind. i decided on progression of the sport. if infact that was the case then Allyance lost money on buying part of the company in a sport they no longer are part of. Right?
so then they tried to get a share of the money back by ripping off the contest. does this make sense to anyone else or am i way off?

they were like say a Don King, sign a big name, wait till the big fight and then when the purse is divied up, take the biggest share and run and wipe his hands clean with the money. OucH!

noogie

08-01-2006, 05:00 PM

seriously everyone should give trigg and tex and vic mass respect.....they busted their ass all weekend and the contest in my opinion was a huge success....excluding the prize money issues which was not their fault anyways

thanks again trig and everyone that contest was awesome

noogie

photoskim

08-01-2006, 05:10 PM

yeah, I say it should still be called the Vic this year
look at your checks

PETE AA

08-01-2006, 05:34 PM

I wanna know if jaimie still rides for allyance...id be fucking pissed.

grahamhsu

08-01-2006, 05:41 PM

Jake exactly wat does that legal mumbo jumbo mean?

narwhal

08-01-2006, 05:41 PM

Whats sad is the winner in PCB gets more than that...

Deebo

08-01-2006, 05:47 PM

I wanna know if jaimie still rides for allyance...id be fucking pissed.

Yeah he should definitly be pissed and for sure be done with them. The only reason I could see him continuing to ride for them would be if something fishy is going on off the books and maybe he got compensated in some way under the table. I really have know idea though just throwing that out there.

UnoriginalAndrew

08-01-2006, 07:02 PM

Maybe Allyance incurred losses on other comps, in costs other than just prize money.

DoMiNiC

08-02-2006, 12:58 AM

is it safe to say "Gayllyance"
Gay Dave, do you concur?

I'm just stoked I conned my way into two genuine Indonesian made Gayllyance boardshorts that are already starting to disintegrate on the art and the stitching!

Derek Makekau

08-02-2006, 02:35 AM

i think dominic takes the cake with "gayllyance". that's hilarious.

aussie goodness

08-02-2006, 04:02 AM

I know i'm a bit late but i think the shirt idea is really good. You could go into a whole line of items shirts, shorts, jumpers...etc. You could then divi up then money and give some to the pros from this comp and the rest towards next comp.

RELIANCEPETE

08-02-2006, 07:40 AM

A positive/big picture perspective:
Even though this whole mess with allyance is a step back, one can already see some good that is coming from it. For example, people volunterring to help out for the Vic a year in advance. Who knows what else Trigg can do (if he so chooses) for the sport of skimboarding if freed from the responsibilities of running a huge contest every year.

Piero Grieco Hellmeister

08-02-2006, 07:48 AM

Why Skim USA or Animal didn´t take the reponsability for the World Skim Champ?

Good to Jason and Joe Vavala that went to Portugal World ZAP Championship.
5.000 euros prize money.

Shame that they robbed Noogie, he has a nice style.

hobo

08-02-2006, 11:22 AM

get on a webcam and make a seaweed thingy about gallyance

undertheradar

08-02-2006, 11:34 AM

Oh snap.

hobo

08-02-2006, 11:35 AM

Shark Energy Drink provides $3000 for every UST event which is paid to Aaron Peluso. In turn, Aaron is to direct that money to the events purse. Cabo was a UST event in which zero dollars made its way over from the UST. At Aliso, the $3000 was promised by the UST until the day before the event when Allyance was notified that only $1000 of the money would be given for the purse. In a phone conversation with Aaron Peluso, he was asked why only a third of the money would be given when it will only hurt the prize purse and the pro competitiors. His reply “they will just have to try to win money somewhere else!”

hmmmmmn..

Pack A Bowl

08-02-2006, 11:39 AM

dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNNN

(S3)

08-02-2006, 11:39 AM

megadeth

08-02-2006, 11:46 AM

Oh snap.

oh snap. (http://snapathlete.ytmnd.com/)

ZapBulletRider

08-02-2006, 11:51 AM

veeerrrrry interesting....

Teddy Parker

08-02-2006, 12:03 PM

Sooo... how 'bout this weather, eh?

slottyskimmerIZ

08-02-2006, 12:09 PM

you have some fuckign nerve to come on here representing a COMPANY, and point fingers, single people out, CALL NAMES. What are you 12? Grow the hell up and aproach this professionally. in one letter you attacked every company excluding: Vic, Shark, Lands End, Skimkidz, Burnlounge, Shark Energy Drink, and yourself. and singled out a person who puts there heart, wallet, and more time than you will ever put into this industry into a single site... THIS site. I've lost respect for you as a shop employee, snowboarder, skimboarder, and person, you have now been demoted to lower than low. You do not aproach stuff in a professional way at all. Your company is a joke.

ZapBulletRider

08-02-2006, 12:09 PM

how bout this lack of response? Calm before the storm, I'll wager.

edit: Blast, one post too late.

BTW, nice touch on the username.

undertheradar

08-02-2006, 12:11 PM

slottyskimmerIZ

08-02-2006, 12:18 PM

yea, your right, lets just sit back and let it happen again. I would have been right there helping out if it was something I was able to do, I live in Maine, thats not easy. Do you think microsoft, ford, or Verizon Wireless, all huge legitimate companys would EVER go on the record to directly bash there competition? I think not... from what I got, the only thing proffesional about that rebuttle was the grammar and spelling.

edit: p.s. Gotcha whit... sucker. Whats your views on this?

and yea, sucha rad username, you might want to change your title tag on your website aswell, as your "wipping your hands clean of the skim industry"

Pack A Bowl

08-02-2006, 12:20 PM

your so gay and dumb slotty iz

funkymunky

08-02-2006, 12:20 PM

I'm makin popcorn.

Chris S

08-02-2006, 12:21 PM

ZapBulletRider

08-02-2006, 12:24 PM

slotty I'm actually w/ undertheradar on this one. He's not saying "sit back and let it happen again", he's saying this is an A & B conversation, C your way out of it.

funkymunky

08-02-2006, 12:26 PM

Im sorry slotty i had to point this out

in one letter you attacked every company excluding: Vic, Shark, Lands End, Skimkidz, Burnlounge, Shark Energy Drink, and yourself.

part of the letter above... :
Furthermore, companies such as Skim Magazine, Victoria Skimboards, Lands End Skimboards, Skimkidz, and Burnlounge are true to their word and want the best for Skim. They have pledged support and follow through which is more than can be said about any other skim industry company

anybody else want popcorn?

undertheradar

08-02-2006, 12:27 PM

All I'm saying is that there are obviously two sides to every story.

Oh, and I predict we see this whole thread dissapear before long.

slottyskimmerIZ

08-02-2006, 12:29 PM

Teddy Parker

08-02-2006, 12:29 PM

I love it when you guys fight, as long as there is makeup sex.

Flskimmer23

08-02-2006, 12:30 PM

wow this issue is a real bust for skimboarders. Allyance pulled it off nicely, while fucking with skimboarders that decent money for just a competition

Gunstock

08-02-2006, 12:30 PM

slotty shut up. He didnt openly bash those companies, he commended them for being true to thier word. I think his letter is way more professional then most of the people on this thread have been.

ZapBulletRider

08-02-2006, 12:31 PM

I'm just waiting for AP to log on.

undertheradar

08-02-2006, 12:32 PM

What are you trying to say funkymonkey?

and whit hows it an a-b convo? It has to do with our whole industry being taken for granted

Edit: undertheradar, I understand what you mean, sorry for snapping, I guess I just don't see the relevance to what I had said.

Are you privy to some inside information the rest of us aren't? If not then all you're doing is continuing to assume and pretend you know what you're talking about. This is obviously an issue for the pros, company owners, UST and Allyance to hash out. Two sides to every story man.....

undertheradar

08-02-2006, 12:33 PM

The main ingredient in operating the tour is sponsorship and support from fellow industry companies. After West Street and Cabo events, in which Allyance provided the entire cash purse with not one supporting company, Allyance made it abundantly clear that they would not continue to be the “meal ticket” for skim.

I find this part pretty interesting.

SCNSkim

08-02-2006, 12:38 PM

unorthadox

08-02-2006, 12:39 PM

Surfskatesnow4evr,

In aligning yourself with the 10th St bros and signing some of the biggest names to your team, was there any plans to market your brand to the skim community itself? How about skim related products or skim apparal? I noticed that all the skimteam on your website appear to be snowboarders first, skimboarders second. I think its weird and that is why your brand was something I did not buy or support. Your marketing strategy failed miserably because you looked at skimboarding as a circus act, as evidenced by the "Big Top Series Tour".

S3

Edit: If someone did not pay their entry fees, why were they allowed to compete? Mind boggling.

I fail to see what a failed marketing strategy for one company has to do with missing-sponsorship for companies already "in line" with a tour. You would think that a company that represents a SKIM tour would not have to worry about convincing already established SKIM companies to support the sport (unless another viel has been pulled over my head, that's the way I see it).

and I kind of hope AP doesn't go into a big response. This kind of matter should not be discussed on a bulletin board...

narwhal

08-02-2006, 12:40 PM

There are so many holes in what snowskatesurf4ever said.

undertheradar

08-02-2006, 12:41 PM

This is an issue that involves anyone that is involved in skimboarding. Sitting back and not voicing your opinions is not helping. The overall topic belongs to the involved companies, but if you have something to say, you should say it.

The solution will come from within the industry but the overall skimboarding population needs to voice their opinion(s) to show that this is not some sport that sits along the side and waits for the next corporate tour bus to come by and give us a check for events.

I agree with you to a point....but at this time nobody here knows what the hell is going on. Allyance, unless they are lying through their teeth did a pretty good job of defending all of the allegations posted in this thread.

undertheradar

08-02-2006, 12:42 PM

There are so many holes in what snowskatesurf4ever said.

Backing that up would probably help your case.

narwhal

08-02-2006, 12:46 PM

If you have read this entire thread and seen what the pros, people at the contest, industry heads have said then what one guy says.... It doesnt match up. Seriouslly I am not quoting a million things its preety easy to see.

ZapBulletRider

08-02-2006, 12:49 PM

and I kind of hope AP doesn't go into a big response. This kind of matter should not be discussed on a bulletin board...

at the same time, I think everyone would like to see an explanation for that one accusation...

narwhal

08-02-2006, 12:52 PM

at the same time, I think everyone would like to see an explanation for that one accusation...

ZBR is right.

undertheradar

08-02-2006, 12:52 PM

Here is what I don't understand. In an industry that is so small, why wouldn't every single board maker, traction maker, clothing, magazine, website etc be putting up money to support it?

narwhal

08-02-2006, 12:55 PM

Here is what I don't understand. In an industry that is so small, why wouldn't every single board maker, traction maker, clothing, magazine, website etc be putting up money to support it?

You just answered it. "In an industry so SMALL".

Everyone should put a little help to make it work, not everyone give the same amounts.

WWright

08-02-2006, 12:57 PM

Why was there a $10,000 dollar purse promise if they knew they didnt want to pay out anymore?

undertheradar

08-02-2006, 12:58 PM

You just answered it. "In an industry so SMALL".

Everyone should put a little help to make it work, not everyone give the same amounts.

I find it hard to believe that its so small that they couldn't host a tour involving half a dozen contests and a modest prize purse. If thats the case seems like they should just do away with the tour completely. That way nobody is let down.

jake

08-02-2006, 12:58 PM

Jake exactly wat does that legal mumbo jumbo mean?

it was a joke about them stealing joe's photos

samcollett

08-02-2006, 01:00 PM

I agree with you to a point....but at this time nobody here knows what the hell is going on. Allyance, unless they are lying through their teeth did a pretty good job of defending all of the allegations posted in this thread.

what about joe bailey's photos?

this is all so blown up it's rediculous. this has been a bad week for skimboarding as a whole. and robs, i hope aaron responds. this affects all of us. and as for you surfsnowskate4whatever, you say skim will not survive? i suspect that you are talking about companies, because i know many people who will own a skimboard(regardless of how they have to get it) until they can't physically skim any longer, so it sure as hell will survive.

undertheradar

08-02-2006, 01:02 PM

what about joe bailey's photos?

this is all so blown up it's rediculous. this has been a bad week for skimboarding as a whole. and robs, i hope aaron responds. this affects all of us. and as for you surfsnowskate4whatever, you say skim will not survive? i suspect that you are talking about companies, because i know many people who will own a skimboard(regardless of how they have to get it) until they can't physically skim any longer, so it sure as hell will survive.

Thats a completely different issue. If it is as was posted in this thread, I don't see why he wouldn't be taking legal action...or at least threatening it.

samcollett

08-02-2006, 01:04 PM

Thats a completely different issue. If it is as was posted in this thread, I don't see why he wouldn't be taking legal action...or at least threatening it.

i assume you're talking about what i said about joe bailey? because the second part of my post was addressing the same issue that's been being addressed.

and no, you originally said that allyance addressed all of the allegations against them in this thread. they did not address the joe bailey issue. i'm not trying to be offensive to you or anything, i'm just pissed over this whole deal.

ZapBulletRider

08-02-2006, 01:09 PM

i know many people who will own a skimboard(regardless of how they have to get it) until they can't physically skim any longer, so it sure as hell will survive.

I plan on quitting after this summer

narwhal

08-02-2006, 01:09 PM

Thats a completely different issue. If it is as was posted in this thread, I don't see why he wouldn't be taking legal action...or at least threatening it.

That was one of the holes i was talking about.

samcollett

08-02-2006, 01:10 PM

I plan on quitting after this summer

damnit whit

undertheradar

08-02-2006, 01:13 PM

To his credit, he did have 5 pages of accusations to respond to.

samcollett

08-02-2006, 01:14 PM

they deleted the post?

undertheradar

08-02-2006, 01:18 PM

...and the plot thickens.

I won't say "I told you so." :D

ZapBulletRider

08-02-2006, 01:20 PM

yeah honestly it doesn't look good to get accused of something and then to delete evidence of the accusation. I'm not taking allyance's side by any means, I'm just saying, I know I wasn't the only one waiting for the rebuttal. I think a lot of us were hoping for you-know-who to call you-know-who on some bullshit.

slottyskimmerIZ

08-02-2006, 01:21 PM

aaaaaaaand now idk what to think... a VERY shady move to delete it... on one hand, I didn't like his unprofessionalism (is this a word?), but on the other hand, he did have points in his post... why was it deleted, this has now become a "bash a company thread, which is against the rules of the forum...

narwhal

08-02-2006, 01:22 PM

...and the plot thickens.

I won't say "I told you so." :D

Can you get off your knees?

Pack A Bowl

08-02-2006, 01:22 PM

hahah this has made my day that much more googaplexed

narwhal

08-02-2006, 01:23 PM

At least some people quoted what he said...

hobo

08-02-2006, 01:24 PM

Here is what I don't understand. In an industry that is so small, why wouldn't every single board maker, traction maker, clothing, magazine, website etc be putting up money to support it?
there is no dedicated traction maker, their are no MAJOR clothing labels, websites dont make money, and board makers/tract/clothin/stores already pay to sponsor riders

J. Saunders

08-02-2006, 01:24 PM

from what i just read about the post from Allyance they just worked us all and proved a gooooood point... they made all this posting from us look like asshole stuff

idk whos side to take on this one

samcollett

08-02-2006, 01:25 PM

edited.

hobo

08-02-2006, 01:26 PM

schweet for me, i get rewarded for never closing windows! :D

Pack A Bowl

08-02-2006, 01:28 PM

i have the post saved. i left the tab with the page up from before it was deleted, i copied it, and i saved it. i'll pm aaron to tell him if he wants to see it i will send it to him, if not i will delete it.

sell it on ebay you fool.

narwhal

08-02-2006, 01:29 PM

there is no dedicated traction maker, their are no MAJOR clothing labels, websites dont make money, and board makers/tract/clothin/stores already pay to sponsor riders

Poorboy was VERY dedicated and more than some board makers.

Poorboy helped me throw 3 to 4 contests.

undertheradar

08-02-2006, 01:33 PM

there is no dedicated traction maker, their are no MAJOR clothing labels, websites dont make money, and board makers/tract/clothin/stores already pay to sponsor riders

Maybe not dedicated, but there are what, 3 sources of traction for skimboards and almost every single person that buys a board buys at least some sort of traction product. Sems to me that those companies would be wise to have a vested interest in supporting the sport.

slottyskimmerIZ

08-02-2006, 01:36 PM

from the sounds of it allyance may have not tried hard enought o GET sponsors. idk though, who knows..

undertheradar

08-02-2006, 01:43 PM

from the sounds of it allyance may have not tried hard enought o GET sponsors. idk though, who knows..

Only so much you can do when they laugh in your face, as Allyance mentioned.

slottyskimmerIZ

08-02-2006, 01:46 PM

who knows if thats true though? thats part of what I was saying.

Pack A Bowl

08-02-2006, 01:48 PM

98ejopifs90ifj-9dsu-9u34-h9ed-0=034t=04=0tedfd lecric shave. blade close, lecric smooth!

ZapBulletRider

08-02-2006, 01:49 PM

thanks, bro

Kyle Thoresen

08-02-2006, 02:36 PM

Wow I am glad i got to read that whole thing before it got deleted... now the real question is who deleted it? and why

vic76

08-02-2006, 02:39 PM

Victoria Skimboards would like to make a statement regarding the whole drama surrounding Allyance and the recent Aliso event. We appreciate the efforts that have been made by Allyance Clothing to support the sport of skimboarding and help try to grow the sport. From the beginning Allyance has put money into riders (Koty Lopez, Jaime Lovett, Morgan Just, and Bill Bryan) and into the skim industry knowing that the returns would be little to nothing. Their efforts have been forthcoming because they like the sport and the people behind the sport. In case it is not known, Allyance put up all of the prize money for West St. ($3,000) and for Cabo ($5,000) on their own without help from outside sponsors. This is just the prize money and of course there are costs associated with each event that make the monetary outlay that much more. The bottom line here is Allyance has been trying to help the sport grow and we should all recognize that and not dwell on the prize purse for Aliso.

In regards to Aliso, there was some misunderstanding between where Victoria Skimboards stood and where Allyance stood that never fully got rectified before the event. Victoria Skimboards wanted to "lessen our load" so to speak as the contest has always been a huge drain on the company during one of our busiest times of the year. It was our goal to just be a part of the event as a monetary sponsor which is where Allyance stepped in. It turned out that Allyance could not get the permits for Aliso and Victoria could so we began to help out with the event. More and more responsibility fell on the lap of Victoria Skimboards through necessity and we stepped up to the plate to make sure the event could happen. Do not discredit the input from Allyance (time spent on tee shirts, gathering sponsors, etc.) as they worked hard to help make the event happen for all of the skimboarders. The prize purse boiled down what was available in the budget which even though most people (including ourselves) do not like but it is a fact of life.

Through it all, we ask that you do not focus so much on the negative but focus on what can be done to keep the event at Aliso and help make it bigger for next year. Victoria Skimboards has always been there and will always be there for the sport and we ask that you begin to contribute to help this "cottage industry" grow and gain the recognition that it so rightfully deserves.

funkymunky

08-02-2006, 02:49 PM

i think we owe somebody an apology...

i was convinced the allyance were theives and now i feel like an ass. so it pretty much seems like the allyance put a ton of money and time into skim boarding and we thanked them by telling them to leave and never come back. so im kind of feeling like the allyance was good for skimboarding and i kind of wish that they would reconsider their recent statement on their future with skimboarding. oops...

jake

08-02-2006, 03:13 PM

i think everyone is blowing MOST of it out of proportion, but i still havent heard a good reason why jame got jack shit.

Brew

08-02-2006, 03:23 PM

The contest was sick. thanks Victoria. but a budget of such high porportions (for what?) left only $900 for the world champ. Lame!!

Joe still needs resolution of his situation which still makes me anti-lyance.

Luff

08-02-2006, 03:24 PM

Instead of everyone making half-assed assumptions and pointing fingers, why doesn't someone just step up and take the blame? That's what annoys me the most. Stop pointing fingers and making assumptions as to what happened, speak for yourself. Let the people responsible for what happened come forward with what happened.

Patrick

08-02-2006, 03:25 PM

Shit I would have liked to hear their side of the story.